changing our language for immigrants

For_England · 02-12-2008, 02:51 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Robert Edwards

That is true. It is said that modern-day Dutch is a mixture of English and German. You can identify the common nouns we share.

I read in one history of the English language book that, had it not been for the Norman invasion, our language today would be very similar to Dutch.

Robert Edwards · 02-12-2008, 07:32 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by For_England

I read in one history of the English language book that, had it not been for the Norman invasion, our language today would be very similar to Dutch.

Of course. They have the same Low German origins. The first English led by Hengist and Horsa came from Jutland (the Jutes) described as a Low German tribe that settled in Britain between the 5th and 6th centuries. Jutland is now in Denmark.
Low German languages include Afrikaans, Dutch, Flemish, Modern Low German, Frisian and English.
Yes, without the Norman interruption we would be speaking something more akin to the other Low German languages.

arden forester · 02-12-2008, 10:16 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by For_England

I read in one history of the English language book that, had it not been for the Norman invasion, our language today would be very similar to Dutch.

That is true. Eddie Izzard tried Old English with Frisian and found he could talk to a willing farmer about a brown cow!

YouTube - Mongrel Nation - Brown cow

Robert Edwards · 02-12-2008, 10:21 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by arden forester

That is true. Eddie Izzard tried Old English with Frisian and found he could talk to a willing farmer about a brown cow!

YouTube - Mongrel Nation - Brown cow

Absolutely amazing!

Gregory Lauder-Frost · 02-12-2008, 11:03 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by For_England

I read in one history of the English language book that, had it not been for the Norman invasion, our language today would be very similar to Dutch.

Interesting analysis. But not all Normans spoke French (or Norman-French). Not long before the 1066 invasion there was a Civil War in Normandy between those who wanted to adopt French customs and language and those who wanted to remain predominantly Danish. (The pro-French lobby won). It explains why the many hundreds of Normans who were already in England prior to the Conquest had no difficulty understanding the locals.

For_England · 02-12-2008, 04:52 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Gregory Lauder-Frost

Interesting analysis. But not all Normans spoke French (or Norman-French). Not long before the 1066 invasion there was a Civil War in Normandy between those who wanted to adopt French customs and language and those who wanted to remain predominantly Danish. (The pro-French lobby won). It explains why the many hundreds of Normans who were already in England prior to the Conquest had no difficulty understanding the locals.

Interesting - I always wondered why the Normans - of Viking lineage - so completely adopted the French language; your answer is they didn't. However, if memory serves me correct, French was the language of the English court from the Norman invasion until the hundred year war. Actually I don't really have a problem with the Latin-via-French words that have entered English quite naturally - it is the large number of neo-Latin words that were artificially invented (even as Latin words) during the Renaissance that I think would be best purged. Actually I've had trouble finding anything on the net about this, but I did come across stuff years ago.

Gregory Lauder-Frost · 02-12-2008, 04:55 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by For_England

Interesting - I always wondered why the Normans - of Viking lineage - so completely adopted the French language; your answer is they didn't. However, if memory serves me correct, French was the language of the English court from the Norman invasion until the hundred year war.

Not entirely. It was Norman-French, not quite the same as what they were speaking in Paris.

For_England · 02-12-2008, 05:51 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Gregory Lauder-Frost

Not entirely. It was Norman-French, not quite the same as what they were speaking in Paris.

Yep, I know, but it still was a form of 'French', even if one of the many old dialects of it, and I decided to keep it simple. I've actually read (very little) Norman French - which comes across to me as a strange combination of French and Latin.

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