noachian

I agree;

Because I believe in social co-operation and have a social responsibility to do common good with fellow men, that doesn't make me collectivist in the Fascist sense. Because I believe in my own individual rights before what any governmental body tells me.

That is what I was trying to explain when I posted about the 'scale/compass':

Statism/Fascism/radical collectivsim-----------me----Ruthless Libertarianism/Anarchism

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"A Monarchy which above all, values the Liberty of the subject." Marcus Aurelius on perfect society.

"Control thy passions, lest they take vengeance on thee." - Epictetus.

Smidgey

It absolutely is. A collectivist is someone who considers politics, morality, law, etc in terms of groups of people and not individuals - do you deny this?

Noachian is doing exactly this and so to call him a collectivist (in terms of his wanting a common unifying culture or monarchy and institutions) is correct.

You are using an obscure definition of collectivist, which is making it difficult for you to grasp what is meant. As applied to the current discussion it is absolutely adequate. Collectivism can apply to many things.

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How vain is man, who boasts in fight the valour of gigantic might!

-Georg Friedrich Händel

Smidgey

Nope, I'm a republican because I'm a libertarian. Nice try, but I know what I believe.

I would say that is absolutely false. Please give me an example of when the British crown was libertarian.

Of course I do (notice I have considered your opinion! ), but I don't see it as being libertarian. You might be a libertarian - but a libertarian with un-libertarian beliefs.

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How vain is man, who boasts in fight the valour of gigantic might!

-Georg Friedrich Händel

noachian

"And I do declare that no foreign prince, person, prelate, state or potentate hath or ought to have any jurisdiction, power, superiority, pre-eminence or authority, ecclesiastical or spiritual, within this realm. So help me God." — from the Oath of Allegiance in the English Bill of Rights, 1689

I would say this has nationalist-libertarian sentiments.

Source: Libertarian Party website.
The UK Libertarian Party - Constitutional

I wouldn't mind joining them actually, they hold somewhat better policies than UKIP do. Not to sure at the moment.

A Libertarian with libertarian belief's that differe from yours . Just as my 'collectivist' beliefs differ to that of Karl Marx's. Like you said, Libertarian can mean a number of different thing, just as collectivist can.

__________________
"A Monarchy which above all, values the Liberty of the subject." Marcus Aurelius on perfect society.

"Control thy passions, lest they take vengeance on thee." - Epictetus.

Wessexman

That could mean many different things. Individuals should be put first but it is useless to simply talk in terms of abstract individuals, in general groups are where you find individuals.

If you mean someone who doesn't use just methodological individualism or atomism then it is quite sensible to be one, alot more than holding those simplistic and silly ways of looking at society, politics et al.

If you mean he puts groups and collectives, particularly large ones, always ahead of the individual and generally thinks only about them then that is different and could deserve the term collectivist.

It depends how you use the term. I fear you are using it in the Randian way of simply anyone who goes beyond childish methodological individualism.

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"A steady patriot of the world alone, The friend of every country but his own. "
-George Canning

I am an aristocrat. I love liberty; I hate equality.
-John Randolph

A spirit of innovation is generally the result of a selfish temper and confined views. People will not look forward to posterity, who never look backward to their ancestors.
-Edmund Burke

Leopold Kohr.