Painter fined for smoking in his own van

youcanhandlethetruth · 25-07-2008, 10:49 PM

Painter fined for smoking in his own van | UK news | guardian.co.uk

And he wasn't even driving !

I can't see it being long before smoking, eating, drinking is banned in all motor vehicles too.

Captain Nasty · 25-07-2008, 10:50 PM

It wasnt his van it was the councils

youcanhandlethetruth · 25-07-2008, 11:19 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Captain Nasty

It wasnt his van it was the councils

You're right it was but as he says: ""Of course there are tools and things in the van, but a barrister would carry about documents in a briefcase in his own car. This is no different to my mind," he said.

This is the whole point - it is not a place of work.

Even if technically it can be called a workplace, surely the whole point of the law is to protect fellow workers from smoke, but in this case, there aren't any others, except the other bloke that got fined for smoking too.

Also it was out of work hours and he claims the van is insured as a private vehicle.

Even if the law is technically correct(which I doubt) then it is still lunacy.

Westcountryman · 26-07-2008, 12:46 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by youcanhandlethetruth

This is the whole point - it is not a place of work.

He could of course challenge this point in court - I doubt he'd win though.

bornfree · 26-07-2008, 01:30 PM

As I've pointed out before, this kind of petty injustice is counterproductive for Britain as a nation.
For every petty injustice, people lose a little more faith in the system, in the state, and it will come to the point where no-one will have any faith in the state or loyalty towards it.
Labour gave these Councils the `right' to police us in this way and in other petty ways, but can Labour see the long-term consequences of this policy? Are they concerned about it - about the long-term survival of the state, of Britain? Does Labour even realise what their policies have achieved? I doubt it.
Or - and this is a one-off special offer for conspiracy theorists - it knows exactly what its policies are achieving.
Would the average police officer behave in this petty way? I doubt it, they have a far greater sense of judgement, of discretion, than these local Council so-called `officers', who in reality have none of the personal qualities which are usually associated with the term officer.

Westcountryman · 26-07-2008, 09:09 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by bornfree

Would the average police officer behave in this petty way? I doubt it, they have a far greater sense of judgement, of discretion, than these local Council so-called `officers', who in reality have none of the personal qualities which are usually associated with the term officer.

Sorry, have to disagree here - some council officers do a superb job, such as Trading Standards Officers and Environmental Health Officers. They are also (usually) highly professional and polite individuals.

Captain Nasty · 26-07-2008, 09:42 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by youcanhandlethetruth

You're right it was but as he says: ""Of course there are tools and things in the van, but a barrister would carry about documents in a briefcase in his own car. This is no different to my mind," he said.

This is the whole point - it is not a place of work.

Even if technically it can be called a workplace, surely the whole point of the law is to protect fellow workers from smoke, but in this case, there aren't any others, except the other bloke that got fined for smoking too.

Also it was out of work hours and he claims the van is insured as a private vehicle.

Even if the law is technically correct(which I doubt) then it is still lunacy.

If it's the councils van they have the right to say what he does in it.

youcanhandlethetruth · 26-07-2008, 10:04 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by bornfree

As I've pointed out before, this kind of petty injustice is counterproductive for Britain as a nation.
For every petty injustice, people lose a little more faith in the system, in the state, and it will come to the point where no-one will have any faith in the state or loyalty towards it.
Labour gave these Councils the `right' to police us in this way and in other petty ways, but can Labour see the long-term consequences of this policy? Are they concerned about it - about the long-term survival of the state, of Britain? Does Labour even realise what their policies have achieved? I doubt it.
Or - and this is a one-off special offer for conspiracy theorists - it knows exactly what its policies are achieving.
Would the average police officer behave in this petty way? I doubt it, they have a far greater sense of judgement, of discretion, than these local Council so-called `officers', who in reality have none of the personal qualities which are usually associated with the term officer.

"can Labour see the long-term consequences of this policy? "

Well could Hitler see the long term consequences of fascism ?

Ok it's an extreme example, but not that extreme when you consider where we're headed.

People should be absolutely right to "lose a little more faith in the system" because the system is out to hurt them, that's obviously the case.

"counterproductive for Britain as a nation" should exactly be the mission statement of Labour, but more importantly it's the agenda of the New World Order they serve.

Of course these council idiots are not part of any "conspiracy" or "new world order" but this system of control works by:

1) getting morons to run it who think they're "doing good"
2) providing incentives for these morons to turn these policies against the public. (hence that is why the police will not come to your house for a burglary but will be there like a shot for speeding offences).
P.S If you think the police are discrete, go to the "police state" section.
3) getting the media to brainwash people into supporting these anti-libertarian policies by brainwashing people that's it's in a good cause (similar to 1) I suppose)

So in summary, YES it knows exactly what its policies are achieving and I've said it all along, it's part of a bigger plan to hurt humanity and bring us to our knees.

I'm starting to think more an more that these people who are in constant denial and can't be bothered to research these so called "conspiracy theories" totally deserve what they get - servitude that's coming fast.

Well conspiracy theory deniers/skeptics, you're going to get everything you want and be the pathetic slaves you want to be. (including you scumbags that are serving the system too)

Enjoy it won't you when you're getting your pensions stolen, house repossesed or head crushed in a cell realizing that I was right all along.....

youcanhandlethetruth · 26-07-2008, 10:11 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Captain Nasty

If it's the councils van they have the right to say what he does in it.

True, but that's a separate issue to the law (which he may well have broken whatever the opinion of whether it's a just law or not).

I say that because if say (for example) the council didn't want him to give other people lifts in his van, they wouldn't be able to charge him a £30 fine for it.

They could either tick him off or fire him but they couldn't fine him.

bornfree · 27-07-2008, 12:37 AM

Westcountryman, if you believe that local Council officials have the appropriate inter-personal skills in their dealings with the public, how about this.
A local trader who has contributed thousands of pounds of publicity to my home town without any reward recently parked his car `illegally' on a piece of`Council owned' land for less than two minutes.
A Stasi from the local Council spotted him and imposed a fine. When the businessman tried to reason with him, said he couldn't avoid parking there, and it was only for a couple of minutes, the Stasi retorted: "tough, not my problem."
The trader says that he won't be giving any more free publicity to the town after this.
Because of this, the town will suffer and the Council's revenue will suffer. It might even have to lay off some of its Stasi, or offer them alternative employment with Robert Mugabe.
On a much wider scale, this trader is one person who has had his faith in Britain and in British commonsense and justice eroded, which was exactly my point.
Youcanhandlethetruth, I wasn't mocking conspiracy theorists, I don't regard this as a derogatory term, I just offered it as an alternative answer.
My own view is, if - if - a government were deliberately planning to destroy a nation's morale, these petty injustices and constant attacks on our civil liberties would be an excellent way of achieving that aim.

25-07-2008, 10:49 PM	#1 (permalink)
youcanhandlethetruth Uber Member Join Date: Sep 2007 Posts: 2,689	Painter fined for smoking in his own van Painter fined for smoking in his own van \| UK news \| guardian.co.uk And he wasn't even driving ! I can't see it being long before smoking, eating, drinking is banned in all motor vehicles too. __________________ Before tyranny and television, "conspiracy theorists" never existed. cointelpro/halfwits(in order of Porkpies) Clippo,newspresenter,Wowbanger TIP,agni,Akria,********,Bear,Eurosceptic Antlantacist

26-07-2008, 01:30 PM	#5 (permalink)
bornfree Member Join Date: Mar 2008 Posts: 126	As I've pointed out before, this kind of petty injustice is counterproductive for Britain as a nation. For every petty injustice, people lose a little more faith in the system, in the state, and it will come to the point where no-one will have any faith in the state or loyalty towards it. Labour gave these Councils the `right' to police us in this way and in other petty ways, but can Labour see the long-term consequences of this policy? Are they concerned about it - about the long-term survival of the state, of Britain? Does Labour even realise what their policies have achieved? I doubt it. Or - and this is a one-off special offer for conspiracy theorists - it knows exactly what its policies are achieving. Would the average police officer behave in this petty way? I doubt it, they have a far greater sense of judgement, of discretion, than these local Council so-called `officers', who in reality have none of the personal qualities which are usually associated with the term officer. Last edited by bornfree; 26-07-2008 at 01:32 PM. Reason: missing word

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25-07-2008, 10:50 PM	#2 (permalink)
Captain Nasty Junior Member Join Date: Jul 2008 Posts: 36	It wasnt his van it was the councils

27-07-2008, 12:37 AM	#10 (permalink)
bornfree Member Join Date: Mar 2008 Posts: 126	Westcountryman, if you believe that local Council officials have the appropriate inter-personal skills in their dealings with the public, how about this. A local trader who has contributed thousands of pounds of publicity to my home town without any reward recently parked his car `illegally' on a piece of`Council owned' land for less than two minutes. A Stasi from the local Council spotted him and imposed a fine. When the businessman tried to reason with him, said he couldn't avoid parking there, and it was only for a couple of minutes, the Stasi retorted: "tough, not my problem." The trader says that he won't be giving any more free publicity to the town after this. Because of this, the town will suffer and the Council's revenue will suffer. It might even have to lay off some of its Stasi, or offer them alternative employment with Robert Mugabe. On a much wider scale, this trader is one person who has had his faith in Britain and in British commonsense and justice eroded, which was exactly my point. Youcanhandlethetruth, I wasn't mocking conspiracy theorists, I don't regard this as a derogatory term, I just offered it as an alternative answer. My own view is, if - if - a government were deliberately planning to destroy a nation's morale, these petty injustices and constant attacks on our civil liberties would be an excellent way of achieving that aim.