The Bear

The answer is contained within your question.
“radical Muslims preach for our death”.

Now I do agree that the Common Market was a good idea and had Britain been allowed to join when it was established we would not be in the mess we are today. Fortunately for Europe de Gaulle said “non” as he rightly foresaw that Britain would be a “spoiler” acting as we would have done as the US glove puppet.

I also believe that years ago as the Common Market moved into being the EC there should have been another referendum held but there wasn’t, and again at the time of Maastricht there should have been a referendum held but there wasn’t.

At both those times withdrawal from the EU would have been possible and even viable.

Today it is neither.

However we are where we are and it’s not the EU that is “forcing us” to do anything other than play by house rules, a reasonable thing since we take what the house offers.

The potential problem is that the way we are going there’s more than a possibility that the other nations may impose such conditions to our full membership INCLUDING monetary union that we simply will not be able to throw in with the European central Bank and that would be an absolute disaster for us here in Britain.

Then you misunderstand the real history of the treaties that various politicians have signed.

In addition to Mrs. Thatcher being pushed into a corner and signing up for a thing she didn’t want (and attempting to set a time trap with her push for expansion towards the East) John Major took us a further step that was another huge step down the path of insoluble integration.

What Blair and now Brown have since done one way or another really has put the final nail in the coffin as regards any possibility of Britain going it alone, unless we get some serious climate change and a reliable banana crop.

In my opinion (well it would) it amounts to the same thing.

Baron von Lotsov

It's a classic rouse. You have two sides; Britain and Germany and then you have that hidden hand as well. I think the same is going on with charities. Again you have two sides, Labour and Conservative and then you have that hidden hand which is known as the independent NGO sector.

These Communists are not original, since when something works they use the same game plan over and over again. It started like that, with two sides, the rich industrialists who ran the northern mills in places like Manchester and the oppressed people who were exploited in them. So along comes Marx and his buddy Engles, who was connected through family to the industrialists and therefore had a bit of money and influence. So as the story went he was taken by Marx's philosophy and backed him in order to stand up for the people who had kept his family wealthy at their expense. It didn't add up then and it does not add up now. The EU is not on the side of the people any more than Marx and Engles were.

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"A government big enough to supply you with everything you need, is a government big enough to take away everything that you have..."

Rebirth

When NuLab got in immigration went sky high and as you would already know it's not limited to the European community (as it's liked to be called) So it's a case of problem creation.

Some agreement at least. Still it seems a bit anti-American which leaves me suspicious, not that I am pro or anti American, just that EU and the USA are talking about unions themselves.


Like I said, it was by a number of politicians who have slowly made steps into this modern EU. Perhaps to limit any reaction from the people of each country. Sounds like treason to me though...

Rebirth

With all that's going on it's pretty hard to dismiss your posts Baron.

Also, excuse me for going off topic.

Baron von Lotsov

I saw the infiltration first hand when I was at university. I went to Manchester, which is a bit of a Mecca for the young Marxists, and the student union was crawling with them. Every single day they were out on the steps pushing their Socialist Worker Party and even when you were minding your own business and having a bite to eat they would come up to you.

It was easy to spot them as they all wore those old style national health glasses and looked exactly the same. Someone in the university was breeding them but I never got to find out whom. The sickest part was they had no cares for the real workers at all, I mean the cleaners and various people who had low paid jobs they would never ever speak to. They were your archetypal champagne socialists with rich parents and everything about them was hypocritical to an unbelievable degree. At the time I was actually a bit of a capitalist, I had started my own business a few years before, not rich by any means but a little better off by my own ingenuity and they would despise that and yet never disclose where their cash came from.

Now we see so many Labour MPs who came from this kind of background. I'm going to compile a list of Marxist Labour MPs. I have already spotted a few but I'm certain there must be far more. Wikipedia tends to give this info so it shouldn't be too difficult.

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"A government big enough to supply you with everything you need, is a government big enough to take away everything that you have..."

The Bear

Funnily enough I also attended Manchester in the 60's but from time to time visited other universities for the odd lecture including on several occasions Oxford and encountered the same SWP aficionados at work all over the show. It’s a “university thing”. It’s also a “young person’s thing”.

Later when taking my Masters at Essex (Colchester campus) again I met the same age group with the same agenda and especially then the “Destroy Apartheid” cause in the fore.

It’s an age thing. Most grow out of it, at least those who get proper jobs do!

Oh maaan, you got problems!

Either that or that was a poor attempt to create the image of an imagined stereotype that you will build upon

Jeeze! You had time for anything else but study? Lucky sod! Mind you, I DID get a “First” for my efforts.

Forget the Marxist bit. That’s a road to nowhere. It’s become far too much of a cliché

Concentrate instead on the “real world inexperienced” career politicians who would sell their own parents for a bag of votes and who don’t give a toss about Britain, the EU, or even the reality or otherwise of the place of human activity in climate change.

The ones who simply look for advancement in the way that a professional manager does in a large corporation.

The same lot to whom politics is a career in the true meaning of the word and therefore a game to be played.

Here’s one to start with as Blair is too easy a target, and in any case he’s more a snake oil salesman than anything else.

Use Alastair Darling as the case study.

He’s a real self serving pompous little numb nuts, and where he not Brown’s glove puppet (horrible mental image!) he would by now be out of the picture as he richly deserves to be following his repeated foul up’s in previous ministerial positions.

Baron von Lotsov

It is a fact though that if you intend to brainwash someone it needs to be done as young as possible and that is why this Marxism is a young person's thing.

OK, here is a factoid for you about universities. Shortly after the Berlin Wall fell down the offices of the Stasi were raided and their files were gone through. It transpired that a lecturer at Liverpool University was on them as an active spy and had been in the job for 25 years.

You can imagine what the colleagues of this person thought. It was actually broadcast on the TV at the time so I'm going by memory here, maybe someone might be able to dig a up a link as it was quite revealing of what really goes on vs. what people who think they know what goes on think goes on. I mean if anyone accused the man of being a Stasi spy prior to this they would most likely have been laughed at, but his name on official Stasi documentation was not something they could argue with. Conclusion: people are gullible.

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"A government big enough to supply you with everything you need, is a government big enough to take away everything that you have..."

The Bear

I recall there were questions about Harold Wilson as well, though that was hushed up big time.

It was of course general knowledge about the practice if not the full extent of USSR involvement in British unions for a good number of years.

On the other hand there is a school of thought that says it was due to the illicit transfer of atomic know how to the USSR that the balance of nuclear power was established and it was that which kept the US from engaging in a pre emptive strike against the USSR out of fear of the reprisals.

The famous MAD philosophy. I suspect it was the only thing that did.

What a disaster we now have Iran on the verge of becoming a nuclear power.

The Iranians being “good Muslims” of course prefer death to life if the manner of their death results in their “go straight to paradise” card.

Hartlepool

I'm sure the Americans have already made a strategic plan to grant them all their wish for a swift and direct journey to their paradise,along with a bunch of their bretheren.

Baron von Lotsov

Also recall Joseph McCarthy. I'm well aware that he is painted as a paranoid figure these days but just how paranoid can someone get? Normally there is a reason behind it, meaning that it is not paranoia. All sorts of innocent looking people were checked out and a lot in the arts, as in your writers of fiction, playrights and that sort of thing. The point is though that just because it may be something put out as fiction it does not necessarily mean that it is without a brainwashing component to it.

Look at the Fabians for example, they have some association with that sort of thing and notice how the arts are pushed in this country far beyond the science. When was the last time you saw a science exhibition in your town? Ah but the trouble is you can't brainwash someone with a scientific invention, where as art. Well take a look at it these days, it is mostly very horrific, e.g. Damion Hurst. How is it he is worth £130 million pounds?

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"A government big enough to supply you with everything you need, is a government big enough to take away everything that you have..."