The drive for equality in education

youcanhandlethetruth · 12-02-2008, 06:00 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Roland

That is the price of social ideals and idiocracy. It does the opposite of what it was meant to.

School is not a pleasant place it's a jungle. The best a school should hope for in my opinion is to get as many kids through with as descent an education as possible.

I don't know if any one else has noticed this as long as your reading, writing, and arithmetic (bit rich coming from me) is OK you will always be alright. The kids regardless of what school they went to will become what they want or strive to be.

As for why every one wants work in the private sector is because every thing is now so expensive people have no choice but to aim for the best job possible.

Every time Gordon Brown the man we keep getting told is an economic genius borrows billions upon billions of pounds to fund his hair brain schemes he puts to much money in the economy deflating the value of your money. When we say things are so expensive these days what you don't realize is the price has not gone up the value of the pound has gone down. On top of this interest rates go up leaving us with less money especially if you have a mortgage and we have to pay the cost of the interest meaning paying more tax.

Roland,

You say "he puts to much money in the economy deflating the value of your money."
Don't know if you know about the federal reserve and the possible economic depression ?....

If so, do you know why the pound is down against the dollar ?
I'm starting to worry we're in much trouble as the Americans ?........

Do you know where I'm coming from on this ?

Sorry to change the subject from education.

prober · 13-02-2008, 04:05 PM

As a contrast to the generally libertarian trend of this site it is interesting to see the hard authoritarian Stalinist view put forward by CLEOPATRA ( "abolish religious and fee paying schools" )in which child education is to be illegal except as provided by the state and parents are to be forced to send their kids to value free dumbing down to lowest demoninator crummy schools as decided by government commissars to be P.C. indoctrinated by the state.

New Labour hate religious private and grammar schools ( except for their own kids) because they are a manifestation of parent and children rights over the state ,produce excellent results, upward social mobility and ethos based good citizens . They want everyone except the left elite to be trapped into zero competition poor social mobility 3rd best. Parents ( many poor) pay twice ... their taxes for state scholls and fees for private ... N Lab fascists want to abolish tax relief so parents pay 3 times and are forced to stop putting their values and children first.

With all in cost of burocracy ridden state education now similar to many private schools its time to smash state control completely and give every parent a voucher of full total per head state education cost value to be used for private or state school. If the local state school gets its act together to be good enough for local parents then they are free to choose either and it will at last give poor families real choice to escape traps.

The growing "sour grapes" attacks on religious schools is particularly evil ..... religious parents pay taxes just like secular so are entitled to same ( school) benefits.

youcanhandlethetruth · 14-02-2008, 12:16 AM

Yes, I'm no advocate of religion in school but I have to admit they do very well and shouldn't be tossed aside.

Maybe that is the reason (or maybe religion or both) that Nu Fascism wants to shut them down.

I agree with some of your sentiments prober but in an ideal world (or if the government gave a shi*) all state schools would be independent from the state and religion and performing as well as the religious schools.

Is it that hard to get state schools to achieve ?

Labour and the tories have run down education no doubt about that.

Hunter · 16-02-2008, 10:21 AM

I've been following this discussion with some interest, waiting to see if anyone would spot the common mistake....but no one has.

The issue has been mentioned about under-achieving schools. No mention has been made as to why they are under-achieving. It's too easy to send examiners into a school and check on how well teachers score on a constantly changing set of marks. But if the problems these teachers face could be sorted out, perhaps (almost certainly) the standards would be raised.
For example: I would be willing to bet that the vast majority of teachers in the well-behaved, private or religious, schools were discipline still has a foothold, would have serious problems controlling a class of yobs from an inner city school were all methods of discipline have been removed.

If 'problem' schools were to be repaired, there would be no need for any 'Lottery' for pupils, as each would have received the necessary education to help them start whatever path they wish to follow in life.

John in Scotland · 16-02-2008, 05:20 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Hunter

If 'problem' schools were to be repaired, there would be no need for any 'Lottery' for pupils, as each would have received the necessary education to help them start whatever path they wish to follow in life.

If.

(as the Spartans are supposed to have said to Philip of Macedon)

youcanhandlethetruth · 18-02-2008, 06:16 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Hunter

I've been following this discussion with some interest, waiting to see if anyone would spot the common mistake....but no one has.

The issue has been mentioned about under-achieving schools. No mention has been made as to why they are under-achieving. It's too easy to send examiners into a school and check on how well teachers score on a constantly changing set of marks. But if the problems these teachers face could be sorted out, perhaps (almost certainly) the standards would be raised.
For example: I would be willing to bet that the vast majority of teachers in the well-behaved, private or religious, schools were discipline still has a foothold, would have serious problems controlling a class of yobs from an inner city school were all methods of discipline have been removed.

If 'problem' schools were to be repaired, there would be no need for any 'Lottery' for pupils, as each would have received the necessary education to help them start whatever path they wish to follow in life.

Good point.......

A question if I may.
You say "how well teachers score on a constantly changing set of marks.".
I assumed schools were graded based on the examination results of it's pupils. Is that the only thing schools are graded on or do they take into account teacher performance too ? Are there any other factors ?

I must admit, I have no idea, but I'm interested to know.
Any idea ?

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13-02-2008, 04:05 PM	#22 (permalink)
prober Senior Member Join Date: Oct 2005 Posts: 860	As a contrast to the generally libertarian trend of this site it is interesting to see the hard authoritarian Stalinist view put forward by CLEOPATRA ( "abolish religious and fee paying schools" )in which child education is to be illegal except as provided by the state and parents are to be forced to send their kids to value free dumbing down to lowest demoninator crummy schools as decided by government commissars to be P.C. indoctrinated by the state. New Labour hate religious private and grammar schools ( except for their own kids) because they are a manifestation of parent and children rights over the state ,produce excellent results, upward social mobility and ethos based good citizens . They want everyone except the left elite to be trapped into zero competition poor social mobility 3rd best. Parents ( many poor) pay twice ... their taxes for state scholls and fees for private ... N Lab fascists want to abolish tax relief so parents pay 3 times and are forced to stop putting their values and children first. With all in cost of burocracy ridden state education now similar to many private schools its time to smash state control completely and give every parent a voucher of full total per head state education cost value to be used for private or state school. If the local state school gets its act together to be good enough for local parents then they are free to choose either and it will at last give poor families real choice to escape traps. The growing "sour grapes" attacks on religious schools is particularly evil ..... religious parents pay taxes just like secular so are entitled to same ( school) benefits.

14-02-2008, 12:16 AM	#23 (permalink)
youcanhandlethetruth Uber Member Join Date: Sep 2007 Posts: 2,689	Yes, I'm no advocate of religion in school but I have to admit they do very well and shouldn't be tossed aside. Maybe that is the reason (or maybe religion or both) that Nu Fascism wants to shut them down. I agree with some of your sentiments prober but in an ideal world (or if the government gave a shi*) all state schools would be independent from the state and religion and performing as well as the religious schools. Is it that hard to get state schools to achieve ? Labour and the tories have run down education no doubt about that.

16-02-2008, 10:21 AM	#24 (permalink)
Hunter Senior Member Join Date: Jan 2008 Posts: 822	I've been following this discussion with some interest, waiting to see if anyone would spot the common mistake....but no one has. The issue has been mentioned about under-achieving schools. No mention has been made as to why they are under-achieving. It's too easy to send examiners into a school and check on how well teachers score on a constantly changing set of marks. But if the problems these teachers face could be sorted out, perhaps (almost certainly) the standards would be raised. For example: I would be willing to bet that the vast majority of teachers in the well-behaved, private or religious, schools were discipline still has a foothold, would have serious problems controlling a class of yobs from an inner city school were all methods of discipline have been removed. If 'problem' schools were to be repaired, there would be no need for any 'Lottery' for pupils, as each would have received the necessary education to help them start whatever path they wish to follow in life.