g hall

Education in this country has been used and abused as a political football for many years

The left have dumbed it down with their prizes for all mentality and the right don't give a toss as they tend to educate privately

The government currently select on musical or sporting ability BUT not thinking ability is it any wonder the Idiocracy is getting more prevalent

__________________
"That government is best which governs least."
"This is a sharp Medicine, but it is a Physician for all diseases and miseries".
"To be "matter of fact" about the world is to blunder into fantasy --and dull fantasy at that, as the real world is strange and wonderful."
TANSTAAFL TANJ

youcanhandlethetruth

You raise some good points Cleopatra, but what about geographics ?

I recently saw in the news that parents who lived within a stones throw of their local school were not allowed to go there because of the lottery system.

I hope the poor working class family doesn't have to spend a fortune sendign there child to a school miles away - that would be terrible.

It seems a bit ludicrous to me although to be fair, if you have a good school in an expensive area, then the only parents who will be close to the school will I guess be middle class.

Anyway, I have no idea how widespread the problem is, but so much for "talking to parents" and "parental choice" as the government always says it does.

So what is the answer ?
Well I'm not sure but maybe one way to eliminate the need for a lottery is to create incentives for the schools that are under-performing to do better. Why not create financial incentives for the best teachers to go to the worst schools ? Maybe this is farfetched but you get the idea. I suppose the trouble with this is that by doing this is you are penalizing the schools that do well for achieving. Oh god I don't know !

Anyhow, instead of running down the schools (which seems to be happening), give them the help or extra funding they need to improve but more importantly take control away from the state to the local authority.

Popeye

None of this nonsense existed prior to the great Marxist social engineering experiment that started in the 60s.

Cleopatra

It is a tricky one. I can only see the unfairness in the way the system is run at present. For example, why should religious schools receive the same amount of funding that normal state schools receive? Religious schools are part financed by their local church whereas your average state school is not, therefore, the state school struggles to pay for the basics and to keep up with other schools.

Rather than avoiding local state schools we should all be sending our children to the local schools and supporting them as best we can. As this is not happening, due initially to snobbery, state schools are failing in many parts of the country.

Considering it is compulsory for all children to be sent to school between the age of 4 and 16 then the education system needs to be improved so that it is equal for all. They can start with decent teacher training for one thing, now teachers (primary) can train in 3 years to become a teacher whereas previously it was longer.

Whatever happened to the teachers, doctors and nurses who went into the profession as they felt it was their calling? Now they're all running off to private health care and private schools, it seems money is the most important thing now.

I also think that the media need to pay more attention to the "good teachers" in our secondary schools. People seem to get the impression that the threat of being attacked or stabbed is a daily experience for teachers; it is not.

Reduce the amount of paperwork that teachers have to do so they can concentrate on educating the children (classroom assistants can deal with this). Reduce class sizes, this is the big difference between private and state schools. Abolish religious and fee paying schools. Forget "sats". Give teachers back the right to punish a child without the fear of being fired or sued. Give control back to the LEA's. Pump money into the schools that are falling below standard. Give teachers back a level of autonomy which may well bring back their initial enthusiasm for the job.

I'm sure I'll think of some more.

Oh, one more thing, as for the lottery I meant a lottery as in you apply to a few schools of your choice and rather than being refused for whatever reason, the school takes a list of names (without addresses or occupations of parents on them) and then picked the required amount of students randomly. That way, the parents of the child would not be shocked at having to travel as they would have initially chosen this school as one in their list. You would hardly apply to a school 20 miles away if you knew there would be a problem with travel.

g hall

Think of the increased carbon footprint bussing all these school children around

__________________
"That government is best which governs least."
"This is a sharp Medicine, but it is a Physician for all diseases and miseries".
"To be "matter of fact" about the world is to blunder into fantasy --and dull fantasy at that, as the real world is strange and wonderful."
TANSTAAFL TANJ

youcanhandlethetruth

Cleopatra,

You raise some good points - I agree with you on most of them, especially how teachers are being undermined - you would almost think the state are trying to make things more difficult for teachers and want the education system to fail wouldn't you ?
Personally, I believe they actually do want it to fail. (see my other posts if you like).

Not sure about your last point - you say you are in favour of the lottery but that parents should be able to choose. Isn't that a slight contradiction ?
If for example a parent is forced to name a 3rd choice school, then I would guess they probably don't want their child to go there.
But if the education system was not in such disarray would there be any need for this merry go round ?
Surely parents would send their child to the nearest school comfortable in the fact that their child could receive a good standard of education wherever they went.....

youcanhandlethetruth

If you want to do your bit by suffocating yourself and reducing Co2 emmissions then let your conscience guide you.........

What's Next: A Breathing Tax?

Fraud

Cleopatra

You are quite right. My post does appear to contradict myself, I should explain.

The first 6 paragraphs are my actual opinion on what is wrong with education today and what could possibly improve it.

My last paragraph was me telling myself that I hadn't actually answered the question of the lottery. Considering there is a snowballs chance in hell of private and religious schools being abolished and teachers given back a level of autonomy (plus the rest), then the next best thing in my opinion is the approval of the lottery system. Basically what I am trying to say (difficult aren't I?) is that the lottery system is an improvement on schools that select children based on their parents profession or address. If a lottery system was implemented then you would know that there was no discrimination.

I hope my post comes across a little clearer now, if it doesn't then please humour me. I will look at some of your views on education.

__________________
"Then they pull down their filthy trousers, squat over a massive, subsidised ditch and evacuate their corrupt, socialist bowels all over a photograph of Shakespeare."

Roland

That is the price of social ideals and idiocracy. It does the opposite of what it was meant to.

School is not a pleasant place it's a jungle. The best a school should hope for in my opinion is to get as many kids through with as descent an education as possible.

I don't know if any one else has noticed this as long as your reading, writing, and arithmetic (bit rich coming from me) is OK you will always be alright. The kids regardless of what school they went to will become what they want or strive to be.

As for why every one wants work in the private sector is because every thing is now so expensive people have no choice but to aim for the best job possible.

Every time Gordon Brown the man we keep getting told is an economic genius borrows billions upon billions of pounds to fund his hair brain schemes he puts to much money in the economy deflating the value of your money. When we say things are so expensive these days what you don't realize is the price has not gone up the value of the pound has gone down. On top of this interest rates go up leaving us with less money especially if you have a mortgage and we have to pay the cost of the interest meaning paying more tax.

youcanhandlethetruth

No worries Cleopatra - nice to have an intelligent discussion on this forum.
No need to be so apologetic -you obviously have got your head screwed on the right way (makes a change with some of the idiots on this forum)

Sorry there I go again....