The Archbishop of Wales, Dr. Barry Morgan, "atheistic fundamentalism"

noachian · 25-12-2007, 01:25 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by kernow

Some are a lot aren't! Where was the ever loving Father when the Jews were suffering terrible atrocities in Auschwitz and Belson? Where is he when little Children are raped and murdered? Where is he when people en masse Pray for War to end? The God bothers say, "God works in mysterious ways" They're certainly right on that one! My Grandparents and Great Grandparents all died of cancer. I knew this and from early childhood right into adult hood I prayed my Parents wouldn't die of cancer! Well my prayers were half answered Mum didn't Dad did! Mum had a terrible death from Alzheimer's!

God makes little descision in what happens now. The earth is full of indeed many horrible people (many good people of course to, there is more good, or at least the good prevails the bad...in my attitude anyways). God loves us, but doesn't always stop us from what we or infact nature does wrong. Everything is in constant degeneration, nature and morality both decay more and more. I believe if we have God in our lives (call me what you like but your pathetic insults will not change my good will) we can become good people. That is how Christ intends us to be. Loving, caring, kind people. So now most of what God does is performed throught people; its judging who are the right people. Human instinct and human nature corrupts all fields of human existance, but we have the power of God to change that! God doesn't intrevene because then what would we need faith for? Faith is the thing we need, the thing that God wants us to have in order to fulfill his duty to our fellow men. Why should we be good to each other if God does everything for us? Faith makes us STRONGER, BETTER people and we don't need faith if we have facts. If God were to come to and heal all the sick on earth right now infront of our eyes and we witnessed it, all of us; we wouldn't need faith be cause we had clearly observed it (although some dead-whit scientist would probably deny it saying that we need an apprapriate methodology to examin whether what we saw was true or not

) We can stil be good people even without faith, but with faith we become STRONGER BETTER people to all else, we become better to other people (NOT better than other people, better to them, in our manner).

I have experienced it myself, when I got faith I changed.....for the better

So when tragically your father died of cancer, God may have been there, in a doctor, in a nurse, in you, in your mother....trying to find a vessal of his divine healing......but sometimes this world and our ignorance is far to prevelant to let God win.

tito · 26-12-2007, 01:35 AM

You admit he is not all powerful then?

Also, do you believe in goodwill without religion?

Smidgey · 26-12-2007, 10:09 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by noachian

For your question Smidgey; no I can't. It is a purely non-scientific theory baised upon assumption and dare I say before such of little of it: faith. A non-scientific theory built on the assumption that all human life must have a superior conciesness created/formed seperate from the flesh of which our condition exists. You can choose to believe this assumption/theory or you can choose an alternative substitute; prehaps if there be a scientific-theory to choose from, however the soul is the most widely excepted conjecture to explain the spiritual existance and physical conciesness of a human being (animals usually believed to have a more primative form).

Dictionary definition:
The principle of life, feeling, thought, and action in humans, regarded as a distinct entity separate from the body, and commonly held to be separable in existence from the body; the spiritual part of humans as distinct from the physical part.

There doesn't need to be a scientific proof. 2+2=4 or A=A can't really be proved scientifically either.

If there is no evidence to support a claim, there is no point in believing it.

noachian · 26-12-2007, 03:42 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Smidgey

There doesn't need to be a scientific proof. 2+2=4 or A=A can't really be proved scientifically either.

If there is no evidence to support a claim, there is no point in believing it.

That my friend is a very sad and dim concept to perceive. And I do see evidence of design in the world, so thats evidence, therefore I have reason to believe.

noachian · 26-12-2007, 03:58 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by tito

You admit he is not all powerful then?

Also, do you believe in goodwill without religion?

Oh he is all powerful, he just rarely intervenes for reasons of faith. God wants people to have faith therefore he rarely uses divine power. Just because someone or thing is powerful doesn't mean they have to use their power. Of course God has used his almighty power at certain points in history, but not nessicerly on a day to day basis. If God were to do everything for us then we wouldn't need each other.

And yesI believe in good will without 'religion' (its not religion which gives people good will, religion is nothing more than an established set of traditions, its peoples spirituality that matters) God gave us all a concience and a human desire to do good, even the most evilest of people will at some point feel the need to do something good. But somebody who has a deep spiritual conection with the God/Christ is more likely to be more morally aware of their actions because their doctrine on which their morals are based come from a God and not just some man (although there are certain parts of the Bible which are there by what man has said and mans opinion). Also somebody who has the fear of a Diety in them is more likely to be good, where as an atheist only has their petty little gut feeling to go by. The teachings of Christ for example are morally brilliant, but atheists of course probably don't follow them, thus they loose out on such benificial morals. I don't believe some philosopher is a hard strong enough basis to build ones morals on, after all its just a man and his brain, it makes much more sense to build ones morals on that of God.

brian pearson · 26-12-2007, 04:09 PM

Still doesn't explain how he can deliver presents to every house in the world in one night though.

More wine.

noachian · 26-12-2007, 05:40 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by brian pearson

Still doesn't explain how he can deliver presents to every house in the world in one night though.

More wine.

Your obviously not philosophically minded enough to distinguish a purposly mythological childrens phabel from a niether provable nor disprovable authentic theological concept of an intelligent source of which doesn't exist within the universe.

Santa is suppose to exist within the physical realm, God isn't.....THERES A DIFFERENCE!!!!! Please don't be a smart ****....highly immature.

kernow · 26-12-2007, 06:33 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by noachian

God makes little descision in what happens now. The earth is full of indeed many horrible people (many good people of course to, there is more good, or at least the good prevails the bad...in my attitude anyways). God loves us, but doesn't always stop us from what we or infact nature does wrong. Everything is in constant degeneration, nature and morality both decay more and more. I believe if we have God in our lives (call me what you like but your pathetic insults will not change my good will) we can become good people. That is how Christ intends us to be. Loving, caring, kind people. So now most of what God does is performed throught people; its judging who are the right people. Human instinct and human nature corrupts all fields of human existance, but we have the power of God to change that! God doesn't intrevene because then what would we need faith for? Faith is the thing we need, the thing that God wants us to have in order to fulfill his duty to our fellow men. Why should we be good to each other if God does everything for us? Faith makes us STRONGER, BETTER people and we don't need faith if we have facts. If God were to come to and heal all the sick on earth right now infront of our eyes and we witnessed it, all of us; we wouldn't need faith be cause we had clearly observed it (although some dead-whit scientist would probably deny it saying that we need an apprapriate methodology to examin whether what we saw was true or not

) We can stil be good people even without faith, but with faith we become STRONGER BETTER people to all else, we become better to other people (NOT better than other people, better to them, in our manner).

I have experienced it myself, when I got faith I changed.....for the better

Whoever it was who brainwashed you into believing that there is a loving God looking after us, could you give us their phone number , they might be able to help the EU sceptic movement!

Smidgey · 26-12-2007, 07:33 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by noachian

That my friend is a very sad and dim concept to perceive. And I do see evidence of design in the world, so thats evidence, therefore I have reason to believe.

It is one of the greatest things. To grow, to learn and to acquire knowledge is one of the most exciting and interesting things.

noachian · 26-12-2007, 08:25 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Smidgey

It is one of the greatest things. To grow, to learn and to acquire knowledge is one of the most exciting and interesting things.

Gaining knowlage is different from only believing in what you see. There is verses full of how seeking wisdom, knowlage and understanding is rightious in Proverbs, however thats nothing to do with only believing in what we can see or prove.

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26-12-2007, 04:09 PM	#26 (permalink)
brian pearson Senior Member Join Date: Dec 2005 Location: nottinghanshire Posts: 759	Still doesn't explain how he can deliver presents to every house in the world in one night though. More wine.