Science Museum stifles intellectual debate

underdog · 23-10-2007, 08:55 AM

I don’t agree with what is generally being said about the geneticist, Dr. James Watson. People are getting in a lather about "all our social policies are based on the fact that their intelligence is the same as ours - whereas all the testing says not really".

What he said was “intelligence the same as ours”. I would expect my intelligence to be different from an African or Amazonian bush-man because they know about their way of life better than I, and I know about my way of life better than them. I would expect my intelligence to be different from that of the person sitting next to me who has a university degree and I don’t. I would expect my intelligence to be different from a five year-old child because we both have different world-views.

The other statement getting people worked up is "people who have to deal with black employees find this is not true". I would go along with this, because society has created this chasm between white and black people. I find it difficult working with black people because I am afraid that when I open my mouth it will be construed that I am racist.

In fact, an email was sent around the office by our Union rep telling us to boycott Dr. Watson’s talk in Bristol, and to contact as many people involved in the series of lectures in the Festical Of Ideas and force them to cancel Dr. Watson’s booking. When I phoned up the Union rep to tell her the engagement was cancelled anyway, and expressed my concern that the Festival Of Ideas was censoring ideas instead of encouraging them, she indirectly called me a racist.

I am not a racist, and I am not an anti-racist. I either like people, or I don’t. But those people who proclaim that they are anti-racist give no quarter to anyone. Their philosophy is “if you’re not with us then you’re against us.” So because I’m not and anti-racist I must be a racist.

Well, they’re entitled to their ideas, shame that other people aren’t entitled to theirs - even those like me who are neither racist nor anti-racist.

g hall · 23-10-2007, 10:10 AM

We must also remember that "Intelligence" is subjective and certainly not an absolute

C_steam · 23-10-2007, 09:29 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Baron von Lotsov

There has only ever been one notable female physicist and that was a long time ago and she ended up dying from the very radiation she had discovered.

Absolutely random off topic interjection on this point (sorry!)

Not so long ago I had the pleasure of a personal, guided tour around a couple of the hangars at what was RAF Wroughton and is now the 'store/large objects repository' for the science museum.

In a corner of one of the hangars (the first one on the right past the science Museum entrance) is a portakabin 'barriered off' by red and white flutter tape to a distance of a couple of yards. i asked what was in the portakabin, and the reply was "Marie Curie's desk - it's still a bit hot..............."!!!

Besoeker · 23-10-2007, 11:11 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by g hall

We must also remember that "Intelligence" is subjective and certainly not an absolute

I agree. Particularly difficult in trying to compare people of one culture with another I think.
See post #20.

g hall · 24-10-2007, 11:46 AM

Besoeker
I agree for example if I and an Aborigine where placed in the outback I know who's intelligence would shine through and wouldn't be mine conversely drop us both in London and the problem would be his

Besoeker · 24-10-2007, 05:41 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by g hall

Besoeker
I agree for example if I and an Aborigine where placed in the outback I know who's intelligence would shine through and wouldn't be mine conversely drop us both in London and the problem would be his

Isn't that more about knowledge rather than intelligence?

g hall · 24-10-2007, 05:56 PM

Possibly but most IQ tests are the same

23-10-2007, 10:10 AM	#22 (permalink)
g hall Uber Member Join Date: Nov 2006 Location: erewhon Posts: 5,638	We must also remember that "Intelligence" is subjective and certainly not an absolute __________________ "That government is best which governs least." "This is a sharp Medicine, but it is a Physician for all diseases and miseries". "To be "matter of fact" about the world is to blunder into fantasy --and dull fantasy at that, as the real world is strange and wonderful." TANSTAAFL TANJ

24-10-2007, 11:46 AM	#25 (permalink)
g hall Uber Member Join Date: Nov 2006 Location: erewhon Posts: 5,638	Besoeker I agree for example if I and an Aborigine where placed in the outback I know who's intelligence would shine through and wouldn't be mine conversely drop us both in London and the problem would be his __________________ "That government is best which governs least." "This is a sharp Medicine, but it is a Physician for all diseases and miseries". "To be "matter of fact" about the world is to blunder into fantasy --and dull fantasy at that, as the real world is strange and wonderful." TANSTAAFL TANJ

24-10-2007, 05:56 PM	#27 (permalink)
g hall Uber Member Join Date: Nov 2006 Location: erewhon Posts: 5,638	Possibly but most IQ tests are the same __________________ "That government is best which governs least." "This is a sharp Medicine, but it is a Physician for all diseases and miseries". "To be "matter of fact" about the world is to blunder into fantasy --and dull fantasy at that, as the real world is strange and wonderful." TANSTAAFL TANJ

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23-10-2007, 08:55 AM	#21 (permalink)
underdog Newbie Join Date: Oct 2007 Posts: 7	I don’t agree with what is generally being said about the geneticist, Dr. James Watson. People are getting in a lather about "all our social policies are based on the fact that their intelligence is the same as ours - whereas all the testing says not really". What he said was “intelligence the same as ours”. I would expect my intelligence to be different from an African or Amazonian bush-man because they know about their way of life better than I, and I know about my way of life better than them. I would expect my intelligence to be different from that of the person sitting next to me who has a university degree and I don’t. I would expect my intelligence to be different from a five year-old child because we both have different world-views. The other statement getting people worked up is "people who have to deal with black employees find this is not true". I would go along with this, because society has created this chasm between white and black people. I find it difficult working with black people because I am afraid that when I open my mouth it will be construed that I am racist. In fact, an email was sent around the office by our Union rep telling us to boycott Dr. Watson’s talk in Bristol, and to contact as many people involved in the series of lectures in the Festical Of Ideas and force them to cancel Dr. Watson’s booking. When I phoned up the Union rep to tell her the engagement was cancelled anyway, and expressed my concern that the Festival Of Ideas was censoring ideas instead of encouraging them, she indirectly called me a racist. I am not a racist, and I am not an anti-racist. I either like people, or I don’t. But those people who proclaim that they are anti-racist give no quarter to anyone. Their philosophy is “if you’re not with us then you’re against us.” So because I’m not and anti-racist I must be a racist. Well, they’re entitled to their ideas, shame that other people aren’t entitled to theirs - even those like me who are neither racist nor anti-racist.