mkpdavies

http://politics.guardian.co.uk/scotl...012491,00.html



I'm getting fully sick of this.

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Labour, Lib Dems

Britannist

Labour dare not bring in the same proportional voting system it is about to implement in Scotland in England - for it knows that UKIP would start winning seats on many local councils up and down the land.

As for the money to be paid to retiring elected councillors in Scotland (as referred to in the article above) - much of it is English money. Scotland gets £11 billion more a year from the UK Government than it pays into the British Treasury in tax.

Alex McKee

Labour doesn't give a rats **** about UKIP. Not yet anyway.

The reason they wouldn't dare do it in England is because nearly all the council seats they hold in England are very, very weakly held by them.

Even in my ward, where Labour is the traditional party of choice, the Conservatives managed to strike a win in 2004, and we crept up on them this last time around. Nowhere near winning, but we increased our vote much faster than the Lib Dems, Conservatives, or the Greens.

In other places, the Labour party would lose councils if they lost just one or two seats. That's why they daren't introduce a PR system in England.

Britannist

I have to say, Alex, that here in London Labour is very worried about UKIP.

You don't have any UKIP elected members specific to your locality.

We do.

We have two on the London Assembly elected by the sort of proportional voting system to be introduced in Scotland for local elections (but not for English local elections).

Although the two members of the London Assembly originally elected as UKIP candidates are now in the anti-EU 'One London' party - they were elected under the UKIP banner on a massive swing across London directly from Labour to UKIP.

So I quite can't agree with everything you write above. Your view may be correct for Gloucestershire, of course.

But here in London we known from things that Livingstone (the europhile Labour Mayor) and other Labour members of the London Assembly (plus some MPs for constituencies in the capital) have said that Labour is very worried about UKIP gaining substantial support under proportional voting.

The other factor you have not mentioned is the Liberal Dims. In view of the fact that UKIP pushed them into fourth place in the last EU Election, they are now worried that proportional voting might let in UKIP 'big time' (and replace them as the third party) in local government (and in the Commons if the proportional voting system used to elect the London Assembly were used there too).

Having previously fought for proportional voting for local government in England - the europhile and anti-UKIP Liberal Dims may now even be telling Labour behind the scenes not to bring it (proportional voting) for eletions to local councils in England for fear that it would boost UKIP.

As I've said before on the forum, Labour in London and the 'East' Midlands (of England) and the Liberal Dims in most other parts of the country worry now that proper proportional voting - for the Commons or for local elections in England or both - will let in UKIP and they will lose votes in the process.

I don't doubt what you say is right, Alex, on the point that Labour is concerned about losing its majority on many English councils (if they were elected using proportional voting) - but what worries Labour more is the thought that in some areas it would have no choice but to go into coalition with UKIP on the councils where its majority disappeared due to proportional voting.

Alex McKee

OK I concede that in areas where UKIP is strong, then Labour may have some concerns about us. However, I feel that we will not even come into mind in most areas of the country.

cookie65

In my area Labour take opposition so seriously they do not even have a Borough wide website :evil: