Saturday nights alright for fighting.....

C_steam · 29-01-2006, 11:51 AM

Quote:

One dead in 20-man street fight
A man has died following a town centre brawl involving more than 20 people.
The 22-year-old suffered serious injuries during the trouble in Abington Square, Northampton, on Saturday night.

He was taken to Northampton General Hospital, where he died. A post-mortem examination is expected to take place later on Sunday.

Quote:

Teenager killed in street fight
An 18-year-old has died after being stabbed during a fight involving up to 30 people.
The teenager was attacked when trouble flared close to Camden Town Tube Station, in north London, on Saturday night, Scotland Yard said.

Not sure this is what sir elton meant. Good old drinking culture!

welshbrit · 29-01-2006, 07:24 PM

8) Having spent some years living in mainland China and being a regular club goer( some extremely seedy ones too) I have to highlight the differences between a night out there and a night out here for the forum.

I have never seen the sort of brawling in chinese cities that you get here it just doesn't happen, I've seen individual spats in bars but nothing like the brutal kickings I have seen in British nightclubs.

If you were to start brawling in a Chinese nightclub the police would be called and I know this wouldn't hold any terror with british yobs because they are all aware of their rights.

The Jing cha (police) would arrive mob handed and wade with sticks while more heavily armed reserves would contain the incident and cut off all routes of escape.

Anyone resisting arrest even innocents are disabled with heavy blows to the backs of the legs or the area between the bottom of the neck and the shoulder blades and anyone stupid enough to pull a weapon would be shot at.

Then there is the police station where there is no right to a phone call or legal officer ane one is alone with the officers that you may have punched kicked or spat at or even insulted....

The courts have no sympathy with your injuries sustained while wrongdoing nor do they care much how long you may have been held in custody or even what you have to say about it.

Sentences are heavy and if one has caused a death one could be executed even if accidental.If one is sentenced to death the appeal system takes weeks not years and one could find oneself escorted out to the execution yard as little as a fortnight after conviction.

Chinese nightclubs are run to make money like everywhere else but people are made to feel welcome and food and drink is generally good quality people would simply not go there if it wasn't.

To be thrown out of a nightclub there is a terrible embarrasment one would lose face, to lose control because one is drunk or upset is seen as weak and stupid it is not cool to brag about how many bouncers you could fight.

Out of control drunkards are pounced on by friends and taken away from the scene of a spat before it escalates in to a real shower of s**t not egged on to start fighting.

British youngsters have had is relatively easy, no one has had grow up in situations where people fear walk to the market because snipers are taking pot shots or fire fights between local armed factions take the lives of the Innocent.

They do not live in a country where family is everything because no one else cares what happens to you and the state doesn't feed you if you cannot feed yourself.

It is too easy to start trouble when the only consequences are a night in the cells and a tale to tell your mates in the morning or a possible fine that the state ends up paying for.

You have your rights and nothing bad is going to happen to you.
You will be defended by people who think it is not your fault that things have come to what they are and if only you had been treated better or had a nicer environment you would have been a model citizen.
If you kill someone you might even get away with that, If you don't get away with it life will be cushy and when they do let you out you will be protected by the law and given the recources for another life.

How can we expect compliance to any social order without the threat of (real) punishment.

kernow · 29-01-2006, 11:53 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by welshbrit

8) Having spent some years living in mainland China and being a regular club goer( some extremely seedy ones too) I have to highlight the differences between a night out there and a night out here for the forum.

I have never seen the sort of brawling in chinese cities that you get here it just doesn't happen, I've seen individual spats in bars but nothing like the brutal kickings I have seen in British nightclubs.

If you were to start brawling in a Chinese nightclub the police would be called and I know this wouldn't hold any terror with british yobs because they are all aware of their rights.

The Jing cha (police) would arrive mob handed and wade with sticks while more heavily armed reserves would contain the incident and cut off all routes of escape.

Anyone resisting arrest even innocents are disabled with heavy blows to the backs of the legs or the area between the bottom of the neck and the shoulder blades and anyone stupid enough to pull a weapon would be shot at.

Then there is the police station where there is no right to a phone call or legal officer ane one is alone with the officers that you may have punched kicked or spat at or even insulted....

The courts have no sympathy with your injuries sustained while wrongdoing nor do they care much how long you may have been held in custody or even what you have to say about it.

Sentences are heavy and if one has caused a death one could be executed even if accidental.If one is sentenced to death the appeal system takes weeks not years and one could find oneself escorted out to the execution yard as little as a fortnight after conviction.

Chinese nightclubs are run to make money like everywhere else but people are made to feel welcome and food and drink is generally good quality people would simply not go there if it wasn't.

To be thrown out of a nightclub there is a terrible embarrasment one would lose face, to lose control because one is drunk or upset is seen as weak and stupid it is not cool to brag about how many bouncers you could fight.

Out of control drunkards are pounced on by friends and taken away from the scene of a spat before it escalates in to a real shower of s**t not egged on to start fighting.

British youngsters have had is relatively easy, no one has had grow up in situations where people fear walk to the market because snipers are taking pot shots or fire fights between local armed factions take the lives of the Innocent.

They do not live in a country where family is everything because no one else cares what happens to you and the state doesn't feed you if you cannot feed yourself.

It is too easy to start trouble when the only consequences are a night in the cells and a tale to tell your mates in the morning or a possible fine that the state ends up paying for.

You have your rights and nothing bad is going to happen to you.
You will be defended by people who think it is not your fault that things have come to what they are and if only you had been treated better or had a nicer environment you would have been a model citizen.
If you kill someone you might even get away with that, If you don't get away with it life will be cushy and when they do let you out you will be protected by the law and given the recources for another life.

How can we expect compliance to any social order without the threat of (real) punishment.

In my opinion that was an excellent posting that is coming out of the same corner as me, although I expect many of the "Liberal Leaners" on the forum wouldn't agree with me!

mkpdavies · 30-01-2006, 12:09 AM

I'm as liberal as they come, but I still think criminals should be dealt with much more harshly.

Snipers is probably going a bit far.

John Carter · 30-01-2006, 01:51 AM

"Tough on crime, tough on the causes of crime".

Just in case you think we've forgotten, Blair.

Hereward the Wake · 30-01-2006, 09:00 PM

Young men nowadays have it tough. They work long hours and pay high taxes or are unemployed. No wonder they let off a little steam.

Me dad says that they could get away with far more in his day than they can now.

I go out and dont get INTO phpbb_fights. Fights are rare.

I wouldent mind the odd brawl with eurofederalists on a night out.

If two men wish to sort out their differences man to man, why should the state interfear.

extra ordinary · 30-01-2006, 09:24 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Hereward the Wake

Young men nowadays have it tough. They work long hours and pay high taxes or are unemployed. No wonder they let off a little steam.

Me dad says that they could get away with far more in his day than they can now.

I go out and dont get INTO phpbb_fights. Fights are rare.

I wouldent mind the odd brawl with eurofederalists on a night out.

If two men wish to sort out their differences man to man, why should the state interfear.

not quite sure what you mean.
I feel that the law shouId be used and enforced fully against lawlessness.
I really hate to see our town centres reduced to scenes of drunken violence and vile behavior.
this whole area needs drasticly tightening up on and correct length of sentences introduced. the licencing laws reinstated and made to be respected.

kernow · 31-01-2006, 01:04 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Hereward the Wake

Young men nowadays have it tough. They work long hours and pay high taxes or are unemployed. No wonder they let off a little steam.

Me dad says that they could get away with far more in his day than they can now.

I go out and dont get INTO phpbb_fights. Fights are rare.

I wouldent mind the odd brawl with eurofederalists on a night out.

If two men wish to sort out their differences man to man, why should the state interfear.

I don't know what era your Dad was brought up in, but I was a child in the "Forties" teenager in the "Fifties" and young adult in the "Sixties" and I cannot remember a time when the law was as lenient with "Young offenders" as it is to-day!

SGK · 31-01-2006, 09:43 AM

Welshbrit, are you seriously extolling the virtues of the Chinese, totalitarian police state? Kernow, are you really agreeing with that?
It has been expressed many times on this board that criminals should be dealt far harsher with in Britain and I can't remember any regular poster disagreeing with that, but this is something different.
Care to enlarge?

kernow · 31-01-2006, 07:44 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by SGK

Welshbrit, are you seriously extolling the virtues of the Chinese, totalitarian police state? Kernow, are you really agreeing with that?
It has been expressed many times on this board that criminals should be dealt far harsher with in Britain and I can't remember any regular poster disagreeing with that, but this is something different.
Care to enlarge?

OK! do a head count how many on this forum agree with my views on! Capital and Corporal punishment? I'm not a "Betting man" if I were I would bet there are more against my views than for them! I know I will not change my views on crime and criminals. the "Kid glove" ( sorry civilised

ops

treatment of criminals does not WORK!

30-01-2006, 12:09 AM	#4 (permalink)
mkpdavies Uber Member Join Date: Sep 2004 Location: Woking Posts: 31,054 Party: Libertarian Party	I'm as liberal as they come, but I still think criminals should be dealt with much more harshly. Snipers is probably going a bit far. __________________ http://brits4ronpaul.blogspot.com/ http://wokinglibertarians.blogspot.com/ http://lpuk.org My ignore list Labour, Blue Labour, Lib Dems

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29-01-2006, 07:24 PM	#2 (permalink)
welshbrit Member Join Date: Dec 2005 Location: Vale of Glamorgan Posts: 127	8) Having spent some years living in mainland China and being a regular club goer( some extremely seedy ones too) I have to highlight the differences between a night out there and a night out here for the forum. I have never seen the sort of brawling in chinese cities that you get here it just doesn't happen, I've seen individual spats in bars but nothing like the brutal kickings I have seen in British nightclubs. If you were to start brawling in a Chinese nightclub the police would be called and I know this wouldn't hold any terror with british yobs because they are all aware of their rights. The Jing cha (police) would arrive mob handed and wade with sticks while more heavily armed reserves would contain the incident and cut off all routes of escape. Anyone resisting arrest even innocents are disabled with heavy blows to the backs of the legs or the area between the bottom of the neck and the shoulder blades and anyone stupid enough to pull a weapon would be shot at. Then there is the police station where there is no right to a phone call or legal officer ane one is alone with the officers that you may have punched kicked or spat at or even insulted.... The courts have no sympathy with your injuries sustained while wrongdoing nor do they care much how long you may have been held in custody or even what you have to say about it. Sentences are heavy and if one has caused a death one could be executed even if accidental.If one is sentenced to death the appeal system takes weeks not years and one could find oneself escorted out to the execution yard as little as a fortnight after conviction. Chinese nightclubs are run to make money like everywhere else but people are made to feel welcome and food and drink is generally good quality people would simply not go there if it wasn't. To be thrown out of a nightclub there is a terrible embarrasment one would lose face, to lose control because one is drunk or upset is seen as weak and stupid it is not cool to brag about how many bouncers you could fight. Out of control drunkards are pounced on by friends and taken away from the scene of a spat before it escalates in to a real shower of s**t not egged on to start fighting. British youngsters have had is relatively easy, no one has had grow up in situations where people fear walk to the market because snipers are taking pot shots or fire fights between local armed factions take the lives of the Innocent. They do not live in a country where family is everything because no one else cares what happens to you and the state doesn't feed you if you cannot feed yourself. It is too easy to start trouble when the only consequences are a night in the cells and a tale to tell your mates in the morning or a possible fine that the state ends up paying for. You have your rights and nothing bad is going to happen to you. You will be defended by people who think it is not your fault that things have come to what they are and if only you had been treated better or had a nicer environment you would have been a model citizen. If you kill someone you might even get away with that, If you don't get away with it life will be cushy and when they do let you out you will be protected by the law and given the recources for another life. How can we expect compliance to any social order without the threat of (real) punishment.

30-01-2006, 01:51 AM	#5 (permalink)
John Carter Uber Member Join Date: Mar 2005 Location: On Sabbatical Posts: 5,110	"Tough on crime, tough on the causes of crime". Just in case you think we've forgotten, Blair.

30-01-2006, 09:00 PM	#6 (permalink)
Hereward the Wake Member Join Date: Mar 2005 Location: Stoke-on-Trent, Staffordshire. Posts: 237	Young men nowadays have it tough. They work long hours and pay high taxes or are unemployed. No wonder they let off a little steam. Me dad says that they could get away with far more in his day than they can now. I go out and dont get INTO phpbb_fights. Fights are rare. I wouldent mind the odd brawl with eurofederalists on a night out. If two men wish to sort out their differences man to man, why should the state interfear.

31-01-2006, 09:43 AM	#9 (permalink)
SGK Senior Member Join Date: Jul 2005 Posts: 1,237	Welshbrit, are you seriously extolling the virtues of the Chinese, totalitarian police state? Kernow, are you really agreeing with that? It has been expressed many times on this board that criminals should be dealt far harsher with in Britain and I can't remember any regular poster disagreeing with that, but this is something different. Care to enlarge?