Carol singers are wrapped in red tape

Anthony Butcher · 20-12-2005, 04:37 AM

Quote:

Carol singers have found themselves tied up in red tape this Christmas because of confusion over new licensing laws.

Under the 2003 Licensing Act - which came INTO phpbb_force last month and, among other things, allows 24-hour drinking - carollers do not need a licence, says the government, if they just start singing.

But, if they make arrangements beforehand to sing in a particular place, they have to apply in writing for a "temporary event notice" from their local council.

Different interpretations by different local authorities have led to uncertainty. One on-off-on carol service in North Wales was originally cancelled when the supermarket where it was to be staged said a licence was essential, but was then put back on again when the local council said the requirement under the new law was "nonsense".

But a large, inter-denominational event in Norfolk at the weekend had to be called off at the last minute after the local authority ruled that it could not go ahead without a temporary event notice.

Churches Together, a group that organises inter-denominational carol singing and Christmas services, said yesterday that the tradition of carol singing had been "broken" by the confusion over the new licensing rules.

"It has been suggested that the legislation needs 'testing' through prosecution of so-called test cases," the group said.

"This seems iniquitous to us and we have no desire to be prosecuted, or even rebuked, merely as a means of testing legislation, the drafting of which, as the confusion testifies, has quite clearly been flawed.

"It is sad that this tradition of ecumenical carol singing, which goes back some 40 years, has had to be broken this year, but we look forward to reviving it next year."

Up to 70 singers from local churches were to entertain passers-by on Saturday outside the Budgens store in Poringland near Norwich. But the event was called off on Friday because of confusion over the licensing requirements.

South Norfolk district council indicated that a licence was needed but that it was too late to apply.

"We have never needed a licence before and there is absolute incredulity, anger and frustration about it from those who would normally take part," said Fr Mark Hackeson of the Church of Our Lady in Poringland.

"Some have suggested that we should have gone ahead anyway and borne the consequences but we did not want to be in a situation where we were breaking the law. Whatever the position, it is a badly drafted law because there are different opinions on how to apply it."

The Rev Derek Grimshaw, minister of Framingham Earl Methodist Church, said: "It seems strange that something that has always been so traditional in this country now seems to be unacceptable."

Aardvark · 20-12-2005, 08:15 AM

Of course, as a morris dancer, I am subject to a special exception that allows morris dancers to dance wherever they wish as long as they have permission of the land owner. In the old days, and morris dancing has been recorded since 1448, but is probably earlier, a side could just turn up and dance in the street at any location. Now permission has to be sought from the owner of the street or pavement (the County Council in most cases) to do something that has always been legal and acceptable. Likewise dancers have always carried drinking vessels with them to drink in the street, but this is now criminalised in most town centres.

The last time there were such pathetic rules was under Cromwell who banned morris dancing because of its links to the established church (the bells and ribbons actually belonged to churches), May poles, mince pies and Christmas pudding.

We have entered an age of politically correct puritanism and everybody is acquiescing - note the carol singers who backed down from a confrontation with South Norfolk DC. If they had gone ahead would the district council really have called in the police to break them up and disperse them (next year they could be ordered to disperse under SOCA, if they didn't they could be arrested).

I'm genuinely frightened. The police state is upon us.

IceDragon · 28-12-2005, 07:46 PM

Seems like British traditions are increasingly becoming seen as a challenge to the new order of the PC Fascist NuLab govt.

C_steam · 28-12-2005, 08:21 PM

Yes - eliminate all britishness as it gets in the way of regions!

John Page · 28-12-2005, 08:33 PM

We could have been onto this - http://www.ukipforum.co.uk/viewtopic...ht=carol#79771

John Page

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20-12-2005, 08:15 AM	#2 (permalink)
Aardvark Moderator Join Date: Dec 2004 Location: Oxonia Posts: 3,973	Of course, as a morris dancer, I am subject to a special exception that allows morris dancers to dance wherever they wish as long as they have permission of the land owner. In the old days, and morris dancing has been recorded since 1448, but is probably earlier, a side could just turn up and dance in the street at any location. Now permission has to be sought from the owner of the street or pavement (the County Council in most cases) to do something that has always been legal and acceptable. Likewise dancers have always carried drinking vessels with them to drink in the street, but this is now criminalised in most town centres. The last time there were such pathetic rules was under Cromwell who banned morris dancing because of its links to the established church (the bells and ribbons actually belonged to churches), May poles, mince pies and Christmas pudding. We have entered an age of politically correct puritanism and everybody is acquiescing - note the carol singers who backed down from a confrontation with South Norfolk DC. If they had gone ahead would the district council really have called in the police to break them up and disperse them (next year they could be ordered to disperse under SOCA, if they didn't they could be arrested). I'm genuinely frightened. The police state is upon us.

28-12-2005, 07:46 PM	#3 (permalink)
IceDragon Senior Member Join Date: May 2005 Posts: 1,048	Seems like British traditions are increasingly becoming seen as a challenge to the new order of the PC Fascist NuLab govt.

28-12-2005, 08:21 PM	#4 (permalink)
C_steam Super Moderator Join Date: Oct 2004 Location: Paddling up 5hit creek..... Posts: 7,788	Yes - eliminate all britishness as it gets in the way of regions!

28-12-2005, 08:33 PM	#5 (permalink)
John Page Senior Member Join Date: Nov 2005 Location: Welwyn Hatfield (Herts.) Posts: 1,878	We could have been onto this - http://www.ukipforum.co.uk/viewtopic...ht=carol#79771 John Page