Reply With QuoteThats the thing ive been saying aswell M3 glad to you see you think it aswell.
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In a nutshell, the problem with NF is although he is good at getting the best out of himself and he will use all of the Party's resources to do so, he is incapable of getting the best from others - in fact I doubt if it ever enters his head to do so.
This might be fine for NF in so far as he shines whilst all who are prepared to stay fade into the background, but if the Party is to be a success it cannot be a one man show and no one with real talent will be prepared to stay under these conditions.
If NF is to remain leader and the party is to be a success, we need a strong Chairman who can keep NF in line and at the same time develop the Party and the talent within it. Otherwise it would be best for NF to realise his failings and resign, for the Party will just continue to decline if he continues to be leader without constraint.
Thats the thing ive been saying aswell M3 glad to you see you think it aswell.
Well that is a total dodge of my question.Originally Posted by kernow
Obviously I respect your opinion and I admire your loyalty, but I think that you are confusing 'natural leader' with 'natural performer'. The two things are not the same.
Anyway, our opinions of what he should be capable of are largely irrelevant. He has had year in office now, and the question is; are you happy with his performance during that time? The facts are there, and since you don't appear to want to dispute my summary, I presume that you agree that it is more or less accurate.
I think that most people here are aware that it is a total nightmare being the leader of a party. People's expectations are always far higher than what can be realistically achieved, which is why I don't hold too much store by measures such as local election results.
What is reasonable to expect is that every effort should have been made, and frankly it hasn't.
If you remember, I came in for quite a bit of stick when I wrote an article saying that a vote for Farage was a vote for more of the same for UKIP. I think that I can now say without any doubt that I have been proved to have been 100% accurate in that assessment. Of course I know that you won't believe that until UKIP sinks in the 2009 EU elections.
But who does that help really? From the poll results, the majority of people here aren't particularly impressed. If Farage can't get himself in gear with people grumbling this much, how will burying your head in the sand and saying "well done you" improve things? He has had his honeymoon period when people were expected to give support regardless of whether they agreed with his decisions. That's over now and his halo has slipped.
Members should be saying "step up your game, or step aside". This is what all other political leaders put up with. In fact I would say that, in comparison, UKIP's leaders have an easy time of it. If UKIP was worthy of media attention, the journalists would be shredding it at the moment.
UKIP is supposed to be saving this country. It won't get any better at that job until the leadership starts performing as a party leadership instead of a one man show. Do you believe that we are any closer to rescuing Britain than we were 12 months ago?
As much as that is a total misdirection from the thread, I think that you need to forget the leadership election. It was a year ago. There is no way of knowing whether Ski would have been a better leader (although I don't think that would be too hard). Farage has had a full year to prove himself the better man and failed. He has instead proved himself to be decidedly average.
Sorry Antony – you are wrong - Below average or failed to make a grade I think is more appropriate. I consider that the party has become an utter shambles, and yet there was so much that could have proactively been done.Well that is a total dodge of my question.
Farage has had a full year to prove himself the better man and failed. He has instead proved himself to be decidedly average.
We are not a party; there is no information flow, no seeking opinion, and no debate. I am almost at the confirmed conclusion that the membership are being taken for a ride - which is why so many are not rejoining or leaving and perhaps latching themselves onto the BNP – at least, for all the beating they get on this forum, they can produce a meaningful and inspiring newspaper !
With the exception of G Batten, the other MEPs appear to be a bunch of self serving, egotistic delinquents, who I suspect enjoy the EU provided MEP lifestyle, rather than doing what they should be doing – getting the UK out of the EU.
The constitution/treaty was our moment, our opportunity to go forward to inspire the public that the UK can be a success outside of the EU. Show them our vision of a Britain free from the EU, a successful Britain, to show them our policies, our strategy, and take them with us forward to an exciting new world. But no, the moment has been lost (On purpose?) we appear to be breast feeders of that disgusting party called the - conservative party.
Look at our new web site, nothing engages the first time viewer – pathetic, and to think of the plethora of talent on this forum that could have been consulted.
Maybe there are pressures on these MEPs that us mere mortals could never understand - so lets not ask eh?
A week in politics is a long time, a year is an eternity, and the question remains – has the grade been made? Definitely no.
I agree that the new official UKIP website is not overly impressive.
However, it did do well in a recent survey of the popularity (or lack of) of party political websites (a survey conducted by Channel Four Television I believe, some details of which were published in the Telegraph on 14.9.2007 and on the Channel Four website earlier this week).
Almost as many people visit the UKIP website as the number of those who visit the official websites of the Liberal Dims and the Labour Party.
The UKIP website is more popular than the Green Party website.
Imagine how many visits the official UKIP website might get if its design and content were of the standard that UKIP party members would like to see.
I thought I'd read somewhere that the 2 lords NF had persuaded to join are, in fact, getting cold feet & seeking to get back into the Tory party?
I'll see if I can find the report.
They are supposedly speaking at the conference.
Not on purpose it wasn'tWell that is a total dodge of my question.
Yes!
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What poll results? I didn't know a poll had been taken Country wide from UKIP members! All I've seen is a poll on a forum which has a large anti UKIP anti Nigel Farage following!
For whom?
With just 1 in 6 believing that NF leadership is excellent or pretty good and 5 out of 6 seeing his leadership as indifferent, disappointing or terrible it does demand further investigation.
Kernow may be correct those voting may just be a few disenchanted members or those hostile to UKIP and the poll does not reflect the view of the bulk of the membership. However, if it does, then clearly it is time for NF to go.
Checking the constitution, apparently 9 NEC members are required to challenge his leadership. Of the current NEC, how many are capable of viewing the issue objectively and would be prepared to vote against NF if they believed it was in the interest of the Party?
The LibDems think there could be an election on 25th October. It was always known that Brown would take over, it was always known (IMHO) that he would seek to become his own man at the ballot box and it should have been known (since plenty of pundits have been forecasting it) that the housing market/property boom would go into melt down as soon as the effects of the sub-prime collapse were felt this side of the Pond (Brown has to go to the polls before everyone loses their money).
A true leader, and I met only one (IIRC) when I was in the Royal Air Force, would have sought to unify the party after his election, he would have looked at the criticisms and dealt with them positively and inclusively and he would have led from the front. Whilst keeping the main fruitcakes and loonies outside the fold, a good leader would have sought to bring back into the party all that large number of people who have flirted with UKIP and left. We should be a party of 25-30,000 members led by a strong team of elected MEPs who feature in the newspapers every week for the good things that they are supposed to be doing.
I hope to fight the GE under the UKIP banner and would like to think that there will be more candidates than last time with professional leaflets (I'm still too embarrassed to show my parents the leaflet which was produced last time). There should, by now, be a co-ordinated strategy in place which we can all sign up to. We should be looking at substance over spin and we should be focussing on the things that matter - the treaty/constitution - over the small change of life (passport covers). IMHO
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