Millennium3

We can never be part of a federal Europe
By Norman Tebbit
Last Updated: 12:01am GMT 28/10/2008

The speech of Valéry Giscard d'Estaing at The Global Vision and Daily Telegraph conference last month was a startling recognition by the French establishment that, whether or not Britain would be "better off out", the advance of the ever closer union of the Euro Republic would be easier without Britain slowing the pace.

Like de Gaulle half a century ago, Giscard has recognised that Britain would no more fit into the 21st-century European state than it would have fitted into the European empires of the 16th, 19th or 20th centuries. His proposal that Britain (and possibly some others) might be left marking time where we are today while the others advance at the double, would indeed open the way to the ever closer union of most members - but would hardly be a lasting political structure.

When, 15 years ago, I suggested to him that it was time to get the British dog out of the federalist manger, he seemed fearful that would leave France "alone with the Germans". Perhaps France now feels that in the expanded EU it would be less lonely without us.

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More recently, the global financial crisis has emphasised that the EU cannot continue as it is. The retreat of countries within the eurozone into unilateral protectionism to save their own banks has illuminated the fatal weakness of the euro. It is a currency with 15 finance ministers - and no currency can survive in the long term without not only a single central bank, but a single Treasury, a single finance minister and a single tax system.

The collapse of the euro itself is neither likely in the near future nor necessarily in British interests. It is more likely that nationalism of the kind we have recently seen by Germany and Iceland, or economic pressures on countries such as Italy, will force some countries to withdraw.

In any case, it is difficult to see that anything could provide the glue to bind together nations as different as Finland and Portugal, Ireland and Romania or Spain and Belgium. Giscard may well find the EU more likely to unravel into a new West European Republic of six or 10 states willing to sacrifice their identities to gain the undoubted advantages that the United Kingdom has enjoyed in its own union of England, Scotland, Ulster and Wales, and 15 or 20 still sovereign states in a new treaty relationship.

Perhaps when Margaret Thatcher set out, in her Bruges speech 20 years ago, her vision of a European Economic Community of "willing and active co-operation between independent sovereign states", she was a quarter of a century ahead of her time.

It was a vision so different from that of the political establishment in Brussels that the euro-fanatics within the Conservative Party concluded she would have to go. Her departure opened the way to the successive treaties of Maastricht, Antwerp, Nice and Lisbon hustling the EEC into the EC and now the EU; but for the obstinate refusal of the Irish to be railroaded into the constitution, we would by now be faced with a European Republic.

Since Thatcher, most British politicians have simply pretended that there was no plan for a European state. Jacques Delors turned to the TUC with his vision of a corporate state in which the European unions would be at the top table with the employers and politicians, just like the old days of Wilson's government, and the TUC turned Labour more European than the Liberals. British euro-sceptics were marginalised and mocked. In the Labour Party, Neil Kinnock, once the firebrand scourge of Brussels, took the Commission's shilling and became another compliant Commissioner.

The task for the Tory leadership, the euro-sceptics, the "Better Off Out" supporters and Ukip is to crystalise the vision of Mrs Thatcher's Bruges speech into the architecture of a new European treaty, one that would constitute a framework within which sovereign states would co-operate with a European Republic formed of those nations willing to enter a complete political union of their own - what we might call their 1707 moment. And if those states are wise, they would see that the 1707 Act of Union brought mutual benefit for three centuries, although devolution has edged the UK close to the cliff edge of break-up within a decade.

In 1988, Mrs Thatcher's "guiding principles for the future" of Europe were simple.

First, that "willing and active co-operation between independent sovereign states is the best way to a successful community". Secondly, that "community policies must tackle present problems in a practical way". Thirdly, she saw a place for "policies that encourage enterprise" and, lastly, that the "most fundamental issue" was the European countries' role in defence.

Those principles still hold good. What has changed is the recognition by Giscard that total union of all member states is unattainable, and that the New Europe must accommodate both the United European States of those willing to unite and the sovereign national states wishing to remain independent.

The financial crisis has exposed that the present system of monetary union without political union is unsustainable, just as Giscard has exposed the present European architecture - even with the constitution in place - as unsustainable, too.

It is time for the euro-sceptics of all kinds to design the architecture of a European home in which there is a place for states seeking ever closer union as well as for those upholding national sovereignty.

We can never be part of a federal Europe - Telegraph

Bob FM

Weren't we told that Tebbitt would be calling for a European superstate on another thread. Perhaps he read the wrong speech.

SponPlague

He's said there may end up being one for those who want it, Bob - but that shouldn't be us - so the other post was half right...

Osric

A good article by Tebbit. Will UKIP heed the advice and get on with the job?

Nyge21

You were, Bob but that thread was badly written, in that Charlemagne had used words to suggest that Tebbitt had called for a superstate , when he had just made an observation on the subject - without necessarily calling for it to happen . I would suggest you take "accepts that the superstate is inevitable" as Charlemagne's spin on Tebbitt's words.

Bob FM

Nyge21, he must be a journalist or a politician, if he can describe 6 to 10 countries as a Superstate.

Charlemagne

If by 'the job' you mean gratefully taking coin from their EU paymasters whilst loafing around in Brussels I would say 'Yes'.

Osric

You know perfectly well what I mean. The job is enacting UKIP's raison d'être - withdrawal of the UK from the EU, or (in my opinion) similarly effective recovery of our legal systems and self-determination.

Geoffrey Collier

The United Kingdom should be a sovereign independent state, co-existing in a global world. It should be comprised of our own citizens, living under a government those laws hold sway in a defined geographical area.

When we talk of co-operating with others, we must be quite specific in what we mean. For example, I agree with the Postal Union. letters/parcels sent from the UK into another state, are delivered by their postal services, and we reciprocate similarly for them. Equally, with other services, aircraft, shipping and other transport, co-operation should
willingly exist. The same must be said of ambassadorial and diplomatic arrangements, but
we should always be aware of co-operation be advocated without any examples being cited.

For purposes of trade, despite the many short-comings, we are members of the WTO, and in military matters, founder members of NATO. Should European countries wish to be members of the EU, or merge into single states, or military alliances, what has that got to do with us? Why do we need to be part of what Tebbit calls a European 1707 movement. The only 1707 Act which should concern us is that UK Act of Union.

Once we become involved in those political unions affecting continental Europe, we will beome involved militarily when things go wrong; of that we can be certain. The only framework which should affect us, is the one which involves those countries and areas which comprise the UK. External problems in which we should become involved, should only be those in which the UK has a direct interest. Become involved in other peoples problems for idealistic reasons, in an imperfect world, we will be permanently at war. Surely, that was the dilemma which the League of Nations could never reconcile or resolve.

Having been invited to speak to a Global Vision audience, Tebbit had to say something.
He could have said that impsing opon the legal citizenship of UK citizens, the political EU citizenship, is not to our liking and must end. Compounding the matter further, by imposing upon that citizenship , a legal EU arrest warrant is wrong morally and inconsistent legally. Should the EU nations wish to obtain political union with Turkey, that must be their decision alone: we want no part of it. Should it be proposed that we renegotiate Maastricht and the Treaty of Rome, can those specific parts be identified in which changes are sought?

We should shed all romantic delusions about being one of the arbiters of Europe, we entertained that nonsense in the 19th.C. and returned to it again in the 20th.C.
In times of humanitarian crises, give help, but those should be spontaneous and of limited duration. The real test of national independence is whether we can make our own decisons in times os crises. For more than two hundred and fifty years, mainland Britain has been free of violent revolution, military defeat and foreign occupation. No other major country can make such a boast. The reasons for our good fortune are complex, but being able to make our own decision, must be identified as a major factor. Those things which have served us well, are those things ion which we should set store

eublues

BBC NEWS | Politics | Thatcher relives Bruges heyday

Thatcher relives Bruges heyday

By Brian Wheeler
Political reporter, BBC News



Margaret Thatcher still draws respect and admiration from her supporters

She may no longer make speeches, on doctor's orders, but there is no keeping Lady Thatcher away from her public.

From the moment she clambered shakily from the back seat of a black Jaguar, on to the forecourt of the Grosvenor House Hotel, London, this was going to be her night.

At 83, and reportedly suffering from dementia, she makes few public appearances these days.

But this was a special occasion - the 20th anniversary dinner of the Bruges Group, which takes its name from a speech in which she first warned against the creation of a European "super state".

She is still recognisable from her prime ministerial heyday. The extraordinary sweep of back-combed hair is still there - as is the famous handbag - but she is clearly very frail.

She walks with tiny, deliberate steps, all her effort seemingly concentrated on getting from A to B.

How many times in your life, do you get to meet a legend? She will be remembered for hundreds of years

Nikki Sinclaire, UKIP Euro election candidate

But she managed to summon up a hint of the old steel, as she paused at the hotel entrance for the photographers, shooting them a determined glare of the type that once reduced Cabinet ministers - and Brussels bureaucrats - to jelly.

And instead of being shepherded past the crowd of admirers in the bar on her way to the top table, she was thrust straight into the middle of them.

They could hardly believe their good fortune.

"How many times in your life, do you get to meet a legend? She will be remembered for hundreds of years," said Nikki Sinclaire, a UKIP Euro election candidate.

"She is the reason I got involved in politics."

'My heroine'

These are Thatcher's people - true believers who had paid upwards of £125 each for the opportunity to have dinner in her presence, including several current Tory MPs, the novelist Frederick Forsyth and the UKIP leader Nigel Farage.

And for a good half hour she walked among them, steadily working the room as her minders battled to keep the pin-striped throng at bay.

At times, the crowd threatened to overwhelm her, as they held up their camera phones to film her progress and pushed forward with outstretched hands, always deferential, but eager for just a few seconds with the former prime minister.

"You are my heroine," said one woman.

"You inspired me," said another, reaching out to grasp her fragile hand, "we need more like you".

Ms Sinclaire explained that she was standing for the UK Independence Party in the West Midlands.

"Good for you. Never give up, never give up," Lady Thatcher told her.

Dementia claims

Then, unexpectedly, as she pushed further into the crowd, I found myself face-to-face with her.

"It's an honour to meet you," I said, shaking her hand and, for reasons which now escape me, adding: "I come from the North East."

She seemed delighted.

"Thank you for coming down. Give them my warm regards," she said.

I did not have time to explain that, on this occasion, I had only come down from North London, but it did not seem to matter.

She seemed much sharper than I had expected.

Her daughter, Carol, recently wrote about her battle with dementia and that on bad days "she can hardly remember the beginning of a sentence by the time she got to the end".

There was little sign of that here.

"I think she gets a bad press about how bad her condition is. She comes to visit us and talks to people for hours without any trouble and of course the pensioners love her," said Susan Smith, of the Chelsea Pensioners' Appeal, one of Lady Thatcher's charities.

Vocal support

She appeared to be flagging a little by the time dinner was over and the speeches were under way.

She was seated at the top table, next to her old comrade in arms Lord Tebbitt, who gave a speech calling for a referendum on Britain's relationship with the EU - and a move towards an alliance of sovereign states, of the kind first outlined by Lady Thatcher in her Bruges speech.

It was typically red-blooded stuff, with much scorn poured on the "euro fanatics" in his own party and their "fellow travellers" in the civil service and the BBC, which went down a storm with the die-hard Euro sceptics in the audience.

But the night belonged to Lady Thatcher.

The sense of betrayal many of her supporters felt 18 years ago at the way she was ejected from Downing Street is evidently still raw among members of the Bruges Group.

As she reached the end of her final procession through tables of applauding admirers, pausing at the top of the stairs for a farewell wave, a chant went up from the back of the room which summed up the night perfectly and - if she heard it - will have left her with a smile on her face.

"Ten more years! Ten more years! Ten more years!"