eublues

The BMWA seem to be pleased with concessions from the EU. They have sold out.

Tony Bennett

REPLY: Unfair and inaccurate.

It was in 1980 that the European Union promulgated Directive EEC/181/80 which, in terms, said: "All countries will go fully metric as soon as possible and when we say so".

Both major parties, in response, said repeatedly that metric conversion would only proceed 'voluntarily' i.e. by consent.

The Conservatives broke this in 1994 by passing a new regulation which made it a criminal offence, punishable by fines of up to £5,000, to use Imperial-only scales after 1 January 2000 and to display sales only in prices per pound.

A moribund BWMA was revived and re-energised the following year (1995) by Vivian Linacre who was replaced 4 or so years ago by current Director John Gardner.

During this time, BMWA has been active on a number of fronts, including:

* Producing papers and reports on various aspects of metrication

* Meeting with top level civil servants on issues such as metrication of road and footpath signs and dual labelling of goods for sale

* Correspondence with officials here and in Brussels

* Co-operating with the metric martyrs campaign and supporting the direct action campaign Active Resistance to Metrication

* Producing information leaflets eg. for market traders

* Arranging meetings of major companies opposed to further metrication

* Lobbying and preparing reports opposing plans to allow U.S. manufacturers to label goods in metric only, a measure which, if implemented, would have undermined the continued use by the U.S. of Imperial measures for trade. This intervention by BWMA has successfully prevented such legislation being implemented.

Given that the 1980 E.U. Directive provided for the complete abolition of the use of Imperial measures in the U.K., the BWMA, together with others, has been successful in influencing the following decisions:

1. The decision by the British government in February 2006 to completely abandon its previous plans to metricate the nation's 2 million road and footpath signs

2. The decision by the British government last year to abandon implementing the 'supplementary indications' regulations which would have banned the display of sales by the lb after 1 January 2010. The pleasing consequence of this has been a welcome return by many traders and small shopkeepers to dual pricing or even risking pricing per lb only

3. The historic decision announced by Commisioner for Enterprise and Industry, Herr Gunter Verheugen, last year, that the E.U. would no longer require Britain to go any further in its metrication programme. Thus saving, for ever, things like miles, yards, feet and inches on our roads, the pint of milk and pint of beer, and the display of prices per lb alongside metric in shops.

On top of all that, Herr Verheugen said on one prominent occasion: 'I like the mile and the pint'.

BWMA is pleased with the EU's concessions. They have been hard-won. Who wouldn't be pleased?

Without the BWMA, British weights and measures would be nearing extinction by now. Instead, they have not only survived, e.g. on our roads, but are even making something of a comeback in shops.

British Weights and Measures Association

---------------------------------------------------------------------------------------

eublues

I accept the rebuke up to a point. On the other hand what "successes" there are seem to be on the EU's terms - for example the pint is now allowed for beer but seems to have been taken over as an EU measure, and a CE stamp must be on all glasses.

If this not just classic tactics by the EU - respond to vociferous challenge by going slower and relying on eurocreep, then come back to it in the future for the final kill.

Tony Bennett

REPLY: Your last point is well taken.

You could say the same about the euro - from Sir James Goldsmith onwards, a section of the British people has fought a determined and successful fight, for over a decade, to keep our own currency - in the teeth of a government determined to impose the euro.

Yet the battle is still not over as it could still be imposed, especially if you look at the terms of the Lisbon Treaty. You could therefore say that we have been *unsuccessful* in not removing the power to impose the euro from the Lisbon Treaty.

Put it this way, BWMA has acted as a very powerful brake on EU and government compuslory metrication plans.They have not yet disconnected the accelerator

---------------------------------------------------------------------------------------

Tony Bennett

Contrary to post #7 in this thread, David Delaney not only remains the Press Officer of British Weights and Measures Assocation, but is also on top form, as this exchange of correspondence with Mr Pipe ('Jules'), the Mayor of Hackney, makes clear. The reply to Mr Pipe from David on behalf of BWMA is below:

++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++ ++++++++++++++++

MAYOR OF HACKNEY TO BWMA

Dear Mr Delaney

Re: Weights and measures enforcement

Thank you for your email regarding the above matter, which was received in my office on 15th October 2008.

The Council's Trading Standards service exists to protect consumers, and a major part of ensuring that consumers can shop fairly is enforcing a single agreed system for weighing and measuring goods for sale. Otherwise it is not possible for shoppers to compare prices at neighbouring stalls or shops and work out if they are paying a fair price, or indeed that they are getting the measure that has been advertised.

Although the Council is legally obliged to carry out these checks, it does not wish to act contrary to the wishes of those it is trying to protect. That is why it has carried out a number of surveys and reviews on this subject. In response, residents and visitors to Hackney have told the Council time and again that they are concerned about the pricing and accuracy of traders’ scales, and that they want the Council to continue to provide checks on traders to ensure that pricing is fair and shoppers are not getting ripped off. The same views have also been found in national surveys on the subject.

The Council has therefore carried out its enforcement of these checks in order to protect its residents and visitors, and in line with their wishes.

Hackney Council acknowledges that produce may be requested and sold ‘by the pound’ and it is not its intention to prevent customers from asking for imperial quantities of goods.

Unfortunately, the Weights and Measures Act 1985 prevents the Council from verifying scales that display imperial measurements only; the scales must also show metric measurements. Price information may also be displayed using imperial measurements, as long as the metric prices are provided.

In contrast, selling by the bowl is not allowed by law. Hackney Council undertook an exercise to determine whether, as some people have claimed, selling by the bowl is fair and transparent for customers. The officers purchased bowls and then weighed the amounts, working out the actual price per kilogramme. They found remarkable variation, with grapes for example ranging from 94p per kg to a staggering £2.40 per kg. It is clear that traders selling by the bowl prevent customers from easily comparing prices.

The vast majority of traders agree that using scales with both metric and imperial measurements is a simple way to provide their customers with confidence in their pricing and measurement of produce, as well as catering for those people who wish to shop ‘by the pound’. Traders who act to prevent the Council from carrying out its checks are not only acting in defiance of the views of their own customers, they invite suspicion about the accuracy and fairness of their pricing.

Therefore, Hackney Council will continue to carry out its obligation to protect residents and visitors shopping in the borough. It is regrettable that a prosecution had to be pursued; the Council makes every effort to advise and reason with traders, and avoids taking court action unless absolutely necessary.

Yours sincerely

Jules Pipe
Mayor of Hackney

++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++ +++++++++++++++++

AND THE REPLY TO THE MAYOR FROM DAVID DELANEY ON BEHALF OF BWMA

Dear Mayor Pipe

Thank you for your reply.

The Government announcement must be a tremendous blow to you as it restores our traditional measures to the market place.

Your spurious arguments about imperial measures not allowing shoppers to compare prices is patent nonsense. As to making accurate weighing machine checks impossible, your staff will know that LACORS does not accept that imperial machines cannot be tested with metric standard weights. The conversion is the simplest arithmetic.

It was the introduction of compulsory metric measures that caused confusion in the first place amplified by the actions of your staff, thankfully shoppers will be able to regain their judgement about fair pricing again. They will also be protected from the “metric downsizing” scam which has become so prevalent.

Your staff can resume their proper duties of protection against “short measure”; this may require some metric zealots to be retrained. I am sure that selling by the bowl will cease now that shoppers will be re-enfranchised and their sense of value restored.

I am sure you will abandon your hopeless and iniquitous case against Mrs Devers and recompense her for the expense and mental anguish you caused.

Regards

David Delaney

----------------------------------------------------

Reply to: dtd@pt.kc3.co.uk

-----Original Message-----
From: Mayor Pipe [mailto:Mayor.Pipe@Hackney.gov.uk]
Sent: 20 October 2008 13:53
To: dtd@pt.kc3.co.uk
Subject: Weights and measures enforcement

--------------------------------------------------------------------------------------

Aardvark

I spoke to a publican the other day, his firkins are now metric! Back door. The publican has to buy in litres even if he sells in pints so that the mega chains will switch to metric for their convenience.

__________________
When in Woking do as the Wokes do.

"I do not wish to form my opinions by thoughtlessly quoting others; I wish others to support their opinions by sensibly quoting me." Paul Wesson (Aardvark) 13th April 2008

Populist Lee

I have the documentation dated 16th August 2008 where David has resigned both from the Committee and as BWMA PRO.

Top form? He has retired due to health issues.
And the Association shall be advertising for a replacement PRO in the next issue of Yardstick

I'm sorry, I am cancelling what I have said to Messrs Plumbe, Gardner and Linacre.

Tony, you have offered your resignation.
Carry it through, please.

__________________
ENGLISH POPULISM
Stands as the only obstacle in the path of the Plutocrats
who seek to reduce all the Peoples of the World
to Economic and Political Slavery under Globalism


POPULISM MEANS WHAT YOU WANT IS WHAT YOU GET


Coming soon to your computer . . . DISSIDENT CONGRESS UK

Tony Bennett

David Delaney of British Weights and Measures Assocation has circulated for general interest this long reply from a Hackney Council bureaucrat justifying their decisions in the Janet Devers case. It's from a chap called Richard Carr, in answer to an enquiry:

+++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++

From: Richard.Carr@Hackney.gov.uk

Thank you for your correspondence regarding the current projects regarding clear, accurate pricing and fair trading practices in Hackney. We will detail the importance of these projects in protecting our residents and shoppers. These projects are also vital in protecting our businesses that are trading fairly and in full compliance with the legal requirements. These projects directly address residents concerns that they get prices which are clear and allow comparison and that they can have continued confidence that the scales traders use is accurate.

As I am sure you are aware, our Trading Standards Service is also known as our Weights and Measures Service. Weights and Measures occupy a central pillar in a free market economy such as ours. It is vital that consumers can make direct comparisons between different stalls and shops. They can do this because of the confidence that equipment like scales are accurate and that all traders operate to the same standards.

Hackney council has carried out a number of Surveys of its Residents and visitors and the results showed that people care about the pricing and accuracy of their scales. Indeed National surveys such as the Vanilla Report: “Measuring up (Consumer perceptions of Weights & Measures Legislation)” have shown that people want checks on weighing machines to continue, because although it is not something they think about every time they buy something across a scale, they have confidence that it has been checked and tested by someone independent.

In the year 2000 imperial measurements were removed from the schedule of the Weights and Measures Act 1985 by a UK regulation implementing the Units of Measurement Directive therefore making them illegal for use for trade in selling loose produce, thus from a legal point of view imperial does not exist.

The requirement to carry out regular tests on weighing equipment.
----------------------------------------------------------------

It is important to note that it is a duty of a weights and Measures Authority t inspect metrological equipment in their area and this includes weighing scales used for the sale of fruit and vegetables. Authorities are required to use Working Standard test Weights to check the scales for their accuracy. In order to carry out these tests the weights have to be tested against more accurate Local Standards, which are in turn tested against National Standards. This is the approach adopted in relation to metric scales.

However, the problem the Authority faces with the sole use of imperial measures is that they have been removed from the UK legislation via the Weights and Measures Act 1985 and therefore imperial measures no longer legally exist. As such there are no Standards which can be used to test the imperial scales against. Therefore it is not possible to test imperial scales for accuracy and indeed it would be illegal for an Inspector of the Weights and Measures to test imperial scales.

Metric scales on the other hand are tested on approximately a yearly basis and the Authority is under an obligation to carry out these checks. But if a trader insists on using the imperial scales in contravention of the legislation there is no way of testing them because no tests have been carried out on imperial scales for at least seven years.

The Authority have to ensure a level playing field for all it’s traders and consequently it would be unfair for one trader to be able to avoid any inspection of their machines whilst everyone else who are adhering to the use of metric scales has their machines checked regularly.

The EU’s decision
-----------------

The above Directive was amended in January 2000 and this allowed the UK a derogation to use imperial units as supplementary units; that is they could be used for comparisons with metric units (so long as they were not as prominent as the metric). This was to continue until 31st December 2009 when imperial units would be removed completely. Earlier this year the European Commission agreed to extend this derogation indefinitely, thus allowing imperial units to be used as comparison units only for an indefinite period of time.

Therefore in essence, the EU’s announcement changed nothing, only extended what has been happening since the year 2000.

It has always been the policy of this Council, since 2000, that imperial units could be used as comparison units; this has not & will not change. This means that the Council allow traders to use a “Dual Scale” which measures metric units but can also provide a comparison for imperial units. But the metric units must be the predominant weighing scale.

The word and spirit of the law asks that all produce is weighed in metric quantities. If people ask for ‘a pound’ then 454g is weighed out for them, they know the price because both price per kg and price per lb are listed.

Legal power to seize scales.
---------------------------

The legal power to seize scales comes from the Weights and Measures Act 1985. As previously stated, legally, for trade, imperial units cannot be used for trade transactions. Therefore scales that can only weigh in imperial units cannot be used for trade. Because of this the scales are ‘rejected’ by an Inspector of Weights and Measures, this means that the crown stamp is obliterated by a 6 pointed star. At this point the scales are illegal to use for trade transactions and if observed in use by an Inspector of Weights and Measures they can be seized.

Since May 2007 Trading Standards Officers have been advising all market traders regularly and leaving advice packs which explain fully and clearly the correct way to sell fruit and vegetables. Regular follow up advice was given. Traders always have the chance to rectify any problems throughout the process, assisted by Officers if they do not understand.

Further action would be taken against any trader who deliberately ignored the advice and information and this may take the form of formal action allowed under the Weights and Measures Act, for example notices, equipment seizures & prosecution.

As discussed above, Trading Standards follows the Council’s enforcement policy, whereby advice is given, to help the trader comply. If the advice is ignored then a warning will be given, followed up in writing, if no improvement occurs formal action will be taken. This is what happened in this case. The Council would like to stress that prosecuting anyone is a last resort and is only taken in circumstances that warrant it.

As previously discussed it is hardly in the spirit of fair and free trade to be refusing to convert and correctly price when all the other traders now use Metric scales and dual mark their prices.

Bowls
------

With regard to the use of bowls, the Authority is not banning the use of bowls and understands that bowls do make life easier for some traders, in that depending on the type of fruit and vegetables they sell, they may not need to invest in scales. It is however very important for the consumer to be able to make value for money comparisons between traders. Firstly they need to display a price per bowl and secondly show the number of items contained in the bowl. Displaying a price and quantity allows consumers to exercise one of their most basic rights, that of comparing prices and value between traders. If prices and quantities are not present, then consumers are disadvantaged.

London Borough of Hackney v Janet Devers
------------------------------------------

Further information can be given about the weights and measures aspects of this case, now that a verdict has been obtained in court.

Ms Devers was regularly advised from the start of May 2007 (although the advice can be shown to go back to 2004). She was issued with a full and comprehensive written advice pack. This pack described the law and the requirements. Rights and wrong examples of how to price were given. The pack clearly stated the law with regard the use of imperial quantities and scales and the consequences for continued non-compliance. Officers tried to offer verbal advice, this was ignored.

Further visits were made and the lack of prices, use of imperial scales and using imperial only quantity marking, were noted and Ms Devers was asked to rectify the problems. Ms Devers could, at any of these interim visits, have carried out what was requested of her and no further action would have been taken. She chose however to ignore this and continue to break the law.

Notices were issued relating to the scales, under the powers outlined above. The scales were eventually seized in line with the procedure stated above. Summons were issued with regard to 6 items of produce not marked with weight or number, 2 instances of selling purely in imperial quantities and 1 count of using unstamped weighing equipment.

On the 8th October 2008 Ms Devers was found guilty of 8 out of the 9 offences. She was sentenced with a 2 year conditional discharge and told to pay the Council’s full costs of £4980. As these costs include legal advice and officer time there has been no actual cost to Hackney council tax payers.

I hope this has answered your queries.

-----------------------------------------------------------------------------------

Tony Bennett

Conservative M.E.P. says 'lay off metric martyrs':

News item circulated today by David Delaney on behalf of British Weights and Measures Association [Reply to David Delaney: dtd@pt.kc3.co.uk]

++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++

MEP welcomes relaxation of metric guidelines
devon.editorial@archant.co.uk
22 October 2008

The government's decision to take a more relaxed approach towards traders who continue to sell in imperial measurements has been welcomed by local MEP Neil Parish.

The Department for Innovation, Universities and Skills has announced that new guidelines will be issued to local councils within months to "encourage more proportionate action" that would prevent a repeat of the metric martyrs cases seen in recent months and years.

In 2007, after Conservative lobbying, EU commissioner Gunther Verheugen announced the UK would be able to keep imperial weights as a 'supplementary indicator' alongside metric measurements. The commission also gave a permanent exclusion for the British pint and the mile. Even with these exemptions, traders could still be prosecuted unless they display pricing information in both imperial and metric.

Neil Parish said: "We do need to ensure that consumers are not mis-sold produce because of confusing measurements, but there have been occasions when trading standards have been heavy-handed in applying the laws.

"We need trading standards officers to go after the real scammers in our town centres, not spend their time on traders who are generally law-abiding but want to sell by the bowl or the pound to customers who prefer to buy in these units of measurement.

"Ultimately, consumers should be able to purchase in the measurements they are accustomed to. Thanks to pressure from Conservative MEPs, the European Commission agreed to let us keep our pounds and ounces - and the government's decision to change its stance is about time.

--------------------------------------------------------------------------------

Tony Bennett

David Delaney of British Weights and Measures Association is today circulating this press release from Neil herron

++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++ +++++++++

METRIC MARTYRS DEFENCE FUND

METRIC MARTYR TO APPEAL AGAINST HER CONVICTION

After very careful consideration 64 year-old Hackney Market trader Janet Devers has decided to lodge an appeal to have her criminal record quashed following the Government's announcement that councils will effectively be barred from prosecuting traders for using imperial measures.

Metric Martyr Janet Devers and Neil Herron of the Metric Martyrs Campaign will lodge the appeal papers at Thames Magistrates Court at 12.30pm Monday 27th October 2008.

Janet Dever's appeal will provide an early test of the Government's new stance which came after she was convicted on eight charges earlier this month. Her case is believed to have prompted the climbdown announced by John Denham, the Innovations Secretary, last weekend.

Janet runs a stall in Ridley Road market, east London. The cabinet minister is to issue guidelines which will stop councils from launching prosecutions over "essentially minor offences", including selling fruit and vegetables in pounds and ounces.

Janet's mother Irene Hunt started the family market stall in the 1930s, said: "I was convicted just before the minister announced that such prosecutions should not be brought and I hope the courts will see that my conviction was unfair. I believe I have been made a scapegoat in all this because the council wanted to make an example of me."

The pensioner, from Wanstead, east London, who sells vegetables in Ridley Road market, was prosecuted by Hackney council – the same authority that brought a successful prosecution against her brother Colin Hunt in 2001.

"I want to clear my name, my brother's name and the names of Steve, John and Julian who have been convicted of these ridiculous charges," she said. "I want this all cleared up so common sense is restored and I can go back to leading a normal life."

Neil Herron, the director of the Metric Martyrs campaign, which is fighting for the block on prosecutions to be confirmed by a change in the law, called Mrs Devers' case "an anomaly and a huge injustice. The courts should acknowledge that and quash Janet's conviction," he said. "Janet was the last one convicted before the Government's U-turn sent out a clear message that these convictions are wrong. "We will now see whether the minister's statement is worth the paper it is written on, otherwise, any rogue council could decide that a prosecution was fair, proportionate and in the public interest, and could take a trader to court for selling a pound of apples. The support from the British public has been fantastic and I have every confidence that it will continue to ensure that justice is finally seen to be done."

Two high-powered lawyers, Michael Caplan QC and Oliver Mishcon, a barrister, have been retained to prepare the papers for the Pardon for the late Steve Thoburn, a Sunderland trader who sold a pound of bananas; John Dove and Julian Harman, both from Cornwall, found guilty of selling Brussels sprouts for 39p a pound; and Mr Hunt, guilty of pricing by the pound and they are being consulted with a view to also handling Janet Devers' appeal.

------------------------------------------------------------------------------------