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Two leading UK Independence Party figures have warned of the danger of the European Union making empty threats towards Russia at a summit meeting in Brussels on 1 September..............
UKIP warns EU over empty threats to Russia - UK Independence Party

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chikrodah

A few questions:

Why no mention of the fact that Count Tolstoy, as well as being a UKIP patron, is UKIP's PPC in David Cameron's constituency?

What was Tolstoy doing in Russia at a time when there's a on-going crisis and NATO and most Western governments are considering their position re Russia and Georgia?

What alternatives do Farage or Tolstoy propose, if they think sanctions and a return to the Cold War era are dangerous, fatuous and a threat?

Russia has been flying Bears into our airspace for over a year. Granted, it's nice of them to give our Typhoons some exercise, but there's a reason for the Russians doing that. Are Tolstoy and Farage aware of these incidents and the likely strategy behind them?

Is it official UKIP policy to be pro-Russia if that means they can issue anti-EU statements?

Bob FM

What difference does the fact he's a PPC make, he was speaking one assumes from personal knowledge of Russia. What was he doing there, perhaps getting to the truth that we know our media tends to hide.

Why should it be UKIP policy by warning that Britain should not become engaged in further military conflict. 90% of the population would agree with him. I can speak from experience my son being home at the weekend, who is a PO in the RN, he says that the Military simply are not in a position to take on further pro-active engagements, and those senior to him despair at the stupidity of threatening Russia.

He believes the Chiefs of the Defence Staff will simply say no to Brown, if he suggests any form of military posturing.

Easy link to Nigel's interview:

Nigel Farage on the EU and Russia - UK Independence Party

chikrodah

How much do you know about Tolstoy, Bob? His 'personal knowledge' of Russia would have been limited until the USSR collapsed; he only got his Russian passport in the '90s IIRC (as did all four children). Granted, 15+ years of 'personal knowledge' is better than none; presumably he was visiting his daughter, who is married to an Uzbekh showjumper and lives in Moscow.

If you want to 'get to the truth', try reading a mixture of Russian, Georgian and independent monitoring websites. Much cheaper than a trip to Russia. Human Rights Watch, for example, disputes Russia's claims of "thousands of casualties" in South Ossetia and has noted inappropriate conduct on the part of the South Ossetian militia. The Russian opposition parties have written two declarations asking the Russian government to avoid further conflict and have stated that Russia is losing its global credibility. They don't support Georgia's actions, but they don't support Russia's either. They can see that the West will have to respond. They are worried about the effect that response and the Russian government's counter-response will have on the Russian people. The Georgians are effectively under Russian occupation, not just in South Ossetia but in Georgia as well. Many Georgians cannot return to their homes. There is a growing humanitarian crisis and it needs solving. France's unilateral solution hasn't worked; Sarkozy had no idea about the mentality of those he was dealing with. Those of us who have got experience from the "Cold War era" have our own views on what should be done. The Baltic states feel vulnerable. They will express that vulnerability at the EU summit. They will expect action.

Sanctions are effectively in place already; financial institutions are curtailing their investments in Russia. The Financial Times has a couple of good items on the subject. Russia could be persuaded to follow a different path by financial constraints, if applied successfully. BP has stopped moving its oil through the Caucasus and will find alternative routes until the conflict is resolved. Corporate globalisation will bring pressure to bear on all parties, even if the EU chooses to listen to Farage and Tolstoy.

BTW, why not mention that Tolstoy's also a PPC? Especially in Cameron's constituency? Free publicity leading up to an election (even the Euros) is surely useful?

As to us being overstretched, that's the fault of a Labour Government who has decimated the armed forces and TA manpower count and mismanaged its global responsibilities. Just because Labour has been a permanent roosting place for Captain C*ckup does not mean that the UK should shirk from its responsibilities.

It is highly likely that the UK will be sending monitors to Georgia, as part of its OSCE committments, for example. Do you honestly expect the UK to say no to NATO if they are asked to provide support?

Aardvark

The UKIP spokesman is a Russian citizen. He has criticised the English middle-classes in Pravda. He is part of a Cossack horde and has been photographed in the gear. We could look very silly if we are taking a Russian's opinion on Russia.

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When in Woking do as the Wokes do.

"I do not wish to form my opinions by thoughtlessly quoting others; I wish others to support their opinions by sensibly quoting me." Paul Wesson (Aardvark) 13th April 2008

Bob FM

You can't say yes, if you've got no military hardware or man power to send. When we have to send an ageing Sea King Fleet, used for air sea rescue, to a war zone then we really are up **** street.

It is no military secret that of 8 Trafalgar Class Hunter Killer Subs in my sons squadron if they're lucky 3 are serviceable. His latest tour has been cancelled twice because of not having a serviceable boat.

His Commanders are becoming quite militant, and will not risk their crews lives, despite what Brown and co may say. This stance from the Miltary in my opinion is well over due.

Bob FM

No personal element to your post of course Paul.

chikrodah

And that, of course, is what the Russians are relying upon. They are past masters of the art of open source intelligence collation. Well done, Bob, for providing them with another nugget.

There used to be a WWII poster that said "Careless talk costs lives". Maybe we ought to remember that, just in case.

Bob FM

Don't be stupid our Military Commanders at all levels, including the Chief of the Defence staff have been saying the same thing for months if not years. The last Sea Lord resigned because Blair would not listen to his concerns.

Try telling the relatives of those who have died in theatre because of poor support and equipment. Brown tried to enact a law to stop Coroners Courts getting to the truth behind some of the deaths. Many of the inquests happen in this part of the world so we see on a daily basis news reports of equipment failure, MOD ignoring warnings.

My sons boat almost sank 3 time due to poor maintenance by civilian contractors cutting corners, which is why his Commanders have simply had enough. It's up to them to decide category risk. They now decide on the basis of poor maintenance that all repairs fall into the A category meaning it will be sorted before they sail, and quite right to. So the Russians are the least of our personnel's problems.

Aardvark

The RAF Sea Kings, bright yellow in colour, are the SAR ones. The other Sea Kings used by the RN/RM carry radar for fighter control or are troop carriers for the marines.

My post might have a personal element, but it is factual. Count Nilkolay Dimitrivitch Tolstoy-Miloslavsky is also a sponsor of the London based Russian Summer Ball and can afford hundreds of pounds to support the Romanovs, but won't pay his deposit for the next GE.

UKIP's foreign policy must be based on a stance that is independent and doesn't tie us to any particular side. The UK is intending to send military monitoring officers to Georgia under the auspices of the OSCE. DFID has released the job spec.

__________________
When in Woking do as the Wokes do.

"I do not wish to form my opinions by thoughtlessly quoting others; I wish others to support their opinions by sensibly quoting me." Paul Wesson (Aardvark) 13th April 2008