Question: Should UKIP candidates, and officials, post without restraint on this forum?

[Geoffrey Collier]

Douglas D: It is possible to detest what some people do without hating them. It can be actions, methods, choices, lack of moral fibre, etc, which you dislike or despise, not the actual being. Your liberal use of the psychiatric/psychological vocabulary, is another tendency which you should control. I also see that BobFM is showing similar tendencies. Words like paranoia have a precise meaning; a delusion of persecution which is unrelated to reality. Our concern about UKIP is well founded in reality; no paranoia there I fear. We could justly use the word psycopathic though, in a collective sense; an inability to learn from experience. Surely we repeat the same mistakes time and time again! The understatement is usually more powerful than the emotional overstatement. With the benefit of reflection, it is inconceivable that you won't agree with my every word.

[Millennium3]

I think it is important that officials post here to explain their, what often seem, irrational decisions.

UKIP is a tiny party which gets little coverage and therefore gets away with things which would be headline news if they occurred within one of the big three parties. This forum does give officials a small taste of what it would be like if the party became successful [some hope].

As for candidates, if they wish to demonstrate how ill or well equipped they are to succeed, I guess that's up to them.

[Anthony Butcher]

I think that the reality is that UKIP is such an irrelevance in national politics at the moment, that anything said here will be ignored.

News coverage for August so far:

English Democrats: 3
Monster Raving Loony: 5
UKIP: 35
Plaid Cymru: 159
Green Party: 210
BNP: 314
Scottish National Party: 1295
Lib Dems: 2220

It doesn't matter a great deal about whether the news is good or bad - simply that no one is talking about UKIP.

[C_steam]

I voted for 'post whatever they like' option. If party officials/NEC members post here you have to respect that they are making a judgement call every time they post, and also trust that they maintain confidentiality. If they prove to be loose tongued, or make a laughing stock of themselves, then they'll be voted off in the future.

Oddly, if I was still a member of UKIp I'd probably vote for DeD in any NEC election because his posts on this forum show me he has dedication to the cause, can debate with logic and has a mind of his own - even if i don't agree with him most of the time!

[Millennium3]

Originally Posted by Anthony Butcher

I think that the reality is that UKIP is such an irrelevance in national politics at the moment, that anything said here will be ignored.

News coverage for August so far:

English Democrats: 3
Monster Raving Loony: 5
UKIP: 35
Plaid Cymru: 159
Green Party: 210
BNP: 314
Scottish National Party: 1295
Lib Dems: 2220

It doesn't matter a great deal about whether the news is good or bad - simply that no one is talking about UKIP.

I am sure that the majority of members who have been around for a few years fully realize this. Let's be honest if a new, half decent, eurosceptic party was formed - there would be a stampede out of UKIP.

[Millennium3]

Originally Posted by C_steam

I voted for 'post whatever they like' option. If party officials/NEC members post here you have to respect that they are making a judgement call every time they post, and also trust that they maintain confidentiality. If they prove to be loose tongued, or make a laughing stock of themselves, then they'll be voted off in the future.

Oddly, if I was still a member of UKIp I'd probably vote for DeD in any NEC election because his posts on this forum show me he has dedication to the cause, can debate with logic and has a mind of his own - even if i don't agree with him most of the time!

Yes, I am inclined to begrudgingly acknowledge that this is true, but that he cannot see that NF is a dreadful leader who has ruined to party does temper such a judgement.

[douglas denny]

Originally Posted by C_steam

I voted for 'post whatever they like' option. If party officials/NEC members post here you have to respect that they are making a judgement call every time they post, and also trust that they maintain confidentiality. If they prove to be loose tongued, or make a laughing stock of themselves, then they'll be voted off in the future.

Oddly, if I was still a member of UKIp I'd probably vote for DeD in any NEC election because his posts on this forum show me he has dedication to the cause, can debate with logic and has a mind of his own - even if i don't agree with him most of the time!

Thank you Steamer for getting right to the nub of the matter in a single sentence:-

It is a judgement for each and every person who posts here as an individual to make for themselves, (whether they are, or are not, in any responsible position or of any significance in this, or any other party),
- as to whether they are being credible; reasonable; equitable; curteous (or otherwise); and whether there is an element of confidentiality required if they are in positions of trust.

Once you are into others making those decisions for you on a mandatory basis - you are lost in the wilderness of totalitarianism.

DED.
-

[douglas denny]

Originally Posted by Millennium3

Yes, I am inclined to begrudgingly acknowledge that this is true, but that he cannot see that NF is a dreadful leader who has ruined to party does temper such a judgement.

I thank you Mill3 for the guarded support.

We only have a difference then in opinon of the efficiency of the party Leader.
I keep repeating to people when this comes up. I not unaware of NF's failings, he is only human. The diffference is, I accept he is the elected leader by the majority of the membership, and until they decide he is not up to it then I assist in whatever way I can to move the party forward. Changing leader now would not be positive; and given time (not long, a couple of years soon passes) there will be a new leader anyway.
We must do the best we can at all times with whatever leader - good bad or indifferent.

DED.
-

[chikrodah]

It looks like those who assume senior UKIPpers think twice (and thus should be allowed to post whatever they want) and those who wish they'd think twice more are in the majority.

[Millennium3]

Originally Posted by douglas denny

I thank you Mill3 for the guarded support.

We only have a difference then in opinon of the efficiency of the party Leader.
I keep repeating to people when this comes up. I not unaware of NF's failings, he is only human. The diffference is, I accept he is the elected leader by the majority of the membership, and until they decide he is not up to it then I assist in whatever way I can to move the party forward. Changing leader now would not be positive; and given time (not long, a couple of years soon passes) there will be a new leader anyway.
We must do the best we can at all times with whatever leader - good bad or indifferent.

DED.
-

In normal times I would be inclined to agree with you. However these are not normal times. The period of NF's remaining leadership takes us beyond the next GE, a time when it is essential that UKIP [whilst it is the leading eurosceptic party] make a significant impact, for the following GE is very likely to decide if Britain has any chance of escaping from the clutches of the EU. A 10% share of the vote in 2009/10 would give a spring board and hope that the party might hold enough seats at the following GE, in a hung Parliament, to determine government policy towards the EU. Greater representation would of course be welcome.

By then QMV will have, or be just about to, come into force. QMV gives the Council of Ministers very great powers and, if there is not a euroscepticish government by then, it is likely that the EU laws passed by the time the next GE comes around will make it all but impossible to escape - and it would not be easy at the time of the previous GE. So I would contend that it is of utmost importance that from now to the next GE every possible avenue is explored in an attempt to boost UKIP [or the leading eurosceptic party at the time] into the realms of 'contender'.

This ambition is not achievable with UKIP if NF remains leader, unless he hands the domestic aspect of the party over to someone who is capable and confines his attention to Brussels and being a minor celebrity.

I admire loyalty, but sometimes it is misplaced - this is such a time.