Sponplague resigns from UKIP

Alex McKee · 12-08-2008, 09:14 PM

Rob is, I believe, a founder member of UKIP. A dire blow to the party. He's right to take a stand though.

SponPlague · 12-08-2008, 09:14 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Barboo

Right, so who's told you that you can't vote?

This is the reseponse I received to my query:

Quote:

When the election rules were drawn up it was agreed that each regional list should be chosen and ranked from a shortlist by a vote of all those members living in the region concerned.

On that basis when the computer ran off the names and addresses of voters for each regional ballot, it selected only members in that region.

This obviously meant, at the end of the day, that overseas members received no ballot papers as they were not listed in any UK region.

At present there is no mechanism by which overseas members can participate in this election as there is no way of allocating them to a region.

There are two ways in which this could be done. Either each overseas member could be asked to register with UKIP their last address in the UK. They could then be counted as members of that region for votes such as this - in the same way as overseas voters are registered for UK Parliamentary elections. An alternative is to give each overseas member a right to choose to which region they should be allocated.

Unfortunately it is just not practically possible to institute either scheme in time for this current election. Every overseas member would first have to register with a region; then they would have to be sent the right ballot form; then it would have to be returned. This cannot be achieved in the two weeks left.

It would not be fair to make votes available to some overseas members and not others. So, the speed of the operation would tend to be dictated by the slowest - probably most distant - members.

Additionally a decision on the method to use is significant enough for it to require NEC approval. I do not think it would be right for me to make an arbitrary decision.

I cannot therefore do anything for this election but I would recommend this issue be addressed by the NEC for future elections and would further recommend that overseas members should in future be given votes according to one of the formulae I have suggested.

Piers Merchant
Returning Officer

Tim Worstall · 12-08-2008, 09:37 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by SponPlague

This is the reseponse I received to my query:

Umm, you might not agree with me, I realise, but that reads to me like a very fair explanation. It should be better, certainly, but in the context of this election right now? Fair enough I would say.

Aardvark · 12-08-2008, 09:56 PM

The matter should have been considered at the time the rules were drawn up. The party has many members who travel overseas on contracts and UKIPMan, for instance, has retired to France - does he not have a vote after all his efforts for the party?

The controllers of the membership list will have known that his situation was going to occur. The people who ran the software will have known that there was something wrong when the total membership was not allocated a ballot paper. If membership is X and total ballots are X - 100 then there is something wrong and someone should have queried the situation.

Yet again, in matters of administration (and UKIP had my name as Wells and sent me other people's mail in the past), UKIP has been found wanting.

The explanation might have satisfied some, but it is morally wrong that no effort could be made to include all fully paid up members in the election process. No doubt Sponplague's money and effort would have been welcomed at election time.

I agree with Rob's decision. A more highly motivated UKIP supporter you could never find. To treat him as a second class member is not acceptable.

NB. Do any MEPs live abroad and do they have votes?

Barboo · 12-08-2008, 10:48 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by SponPlague

This is the reseponse I received to my query:

Quote from Piers Merchant:

"It would not be fair to make votes available to some overseas members and not others. So, the speed of the operation would tend to be dictated by the slowest - probably most distant - members.

Additionally a decision on the method to use is significant enough for it to require NEC approval. I do not think it would be right for me to make an arbitrary decision".

For god's sake what's the matter with Piers Merchant, writing like some town hall jobsworth instead of an officer of a political party that values its loyal hardworking members! If a problem has surfaced about which there is no existing rule then of course it's right for him to make an arbitrary decision. That's what an RO is for. It's called responsibility, Mr Merchant. The NEC can chat about it all they want after this selection process is over, but right now you have to do whatever's necessary to keep a very angry member on board.

This is not unfair to other overseas members - every one of them could have complained and asked for a vote, but they didn't. Rob did, so get an effing ballot paper for whichever region he chooses into the post to him without delay.

Akebono · 12-08-2008, 10:51 PM

A wizz at IT and a fan of Goons, Fawlty Towers and Billie Piper.
He spoke well with a Scottish accent (brogue) and I believe had a passion for trying to discover Nessie. The Spey Valley is a spectacular place and he supports Scotland to be away from the EU.

He will be and is sadly missed and I believe that he should be permitted to keep his badge.

Regards and PM is in doubt.

douglas denny · 12-08-2008, 11:06 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by SponPlague

How do they know I'm not abroad temporarily, for say 1 year? The suggestion I could "pick" a region was one possibility raised by Piers Merchant, the Returning Officer - along with where I last lived.

I can get a postal vote based on my last constituency, or register at my parent's address, so i don't see why UKIP should be any different. And our new web slogan's going to be "Freedom to Choose", I believe...

I agree. Quite wrong if you are a UK resident/ subject with a passport and in UKIP. I shall take it up with Piers now and raise it at the next NEC.

A bit precipitous to just resign like that without a fight first though.

DED.
-

Petrina · 12-08-2008, 11:50 PM

Sorry to see Sponplague driven out by UKIP`s odd behaviour ,join the crew!
Martha Andreason (or however one spells her name ) doesn`t live here ,she is resident in Spain ,nor does she seem to have any real ties to this country,nor does she appear to be entitled to be a full member of UKIP ,yet she is standing as an UKIP MEP candidate ,funny old world .

Richard Allen · 12-08-2008, 11:59 PM

This situation is absolutely intolerable and needs to be addressed. I fully understand why Rob is so angry about this and he has every right to be.

However I would like to ask Rob the following question. If you, and others in your position, received an apology and were told that this would be fixed for any future elections would you reconsider your decision.

kiwi ukipper · 13-08-2008, 12:20 AM

So let me get this straight.

As a non-resident UKIP member I can not vote; but if I had registered a false name at my former London address and got my old flatmate to send the forms to me I could have?

Odd, to say the least.

12-08-2008, 09:14 PM	#11 (permalink)
Alex McKee Moderator Join Date: Apr 2005 Location: Gloucester Posts: 6,666	Rob is, I believe, a founder member of UKIP. A dire blow to the party. He's right to take a stand though. __________________ Anything I post on this web forum is my personal opinion only. Users on Ignore list: None.

12-08-2008, 09:56 PM	#14 (permalink)
Aardvark Moderator Join Date: Dec 2004 Location: Oxonia Posts: 4,255	The matter should have been considered at the time the rules were drawn up. The party has many members who travel overseas on contracts and UKIPMan, for instance, has retired to France - does he not have a vote after all his efforts for the party? The controllers of the membership list will have known that his situation was going to occur. The people who ran the software will have known that there was something wrong when the total membership was not allocated a ballot paper. If membership is X and total ballots are X - 100 then there is something wrong and someone should have queried the situation. Yet again, in matters of administration (and UKIP had my name as Wells and sent me other people's mail in the past), UKIP has been found wanting. The explanation might have satisfied some, but it is morally wrong that no effort could be made to include all fully paid up members in the election process. No doubt Sponplague's money and effort would have been welcomed at election time. I agree with Rob's decision. A more highly motivated UKIP supporter you could never find. To treat him as a second class member is not acceptable. NB. Do any MEPs live abroad and do they have votes? __________________ When in Woking do as the Wokes do. "I do not wish to form my opinions by thoughtlessly quoting others; I wish others to support their opinions by sensibly quoting me." Paul Wesson (Aardvark) 13th April 2008 Last edited by Aardvark; 12-08-2008 at 10:00 PM.

13-08-2008, 12:20 AM	#20 (permalink)
kiwi ukipper Junior Member Join Date: Apr 2008 Location: Wellington, New Zealand Posts: 69	So let me get this straight. As a non-resident UKIP member I can not vote; but if I had registered a false name at my former London address and got my old flatmate to send the forms to me I could have? Odd, to say the least. __________________ "The socialist goal of equality can only be achieved when we all have nothing" Former ACT Party leader, Hon Richard Prebble.

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12-08-2008, 10:51 PM	#16 (permalink)
Akebono Member Join Date: Mar 2006 Posts: 138	A wizz at IT and a fan of Goons, Fawlty Towers and Billie Piper. He spoke well with a Scottish accent (brogue) and I believe had a passion for trying to discover Nessie. The Spey Valley is a spectacular place and he supports Scotland to be away from the EU. He will be and is sadly missed and I believe that he should be permitted to keep his badge. Regards and PM is in doubt.

12-08-2008, 11:50 PM	#18 (permalink)
Petrina Senior Member Join Date: Jan 2006 Location: sussex Posts: 1,062	Sorry to see Sponplague driven out by UKIP`s odd behaviour ,join the crew! Martha Andreason (or however one spells her name ) doesn`t live here ,she is resident in Spain ,nor does she seem to have any real ties to this country,nor does she appear to be entitled to be a full member of UKIP ,yet she is standing as an UKIP MEP candidate ,funny old world .

12-08-2008, 11:59 PM	#19 (permalink)
Richard Allen Senior Member Join Date: Jun 2006 Posts: 575	This situation is absolutely intolerable and needs to be addressed. I fully understand why Rob is so angry about this and he has every right to be. However I would like to ask Rob the following question. If you, and others in your position, received an apology and were told that this would be fixed for any future elections would you reconsider your decision.