eublues

Things aren't great, but heaping all the blame on UKIP and Nigel as the leader may be simplistic. Much of the problem, I would say, is rooted in deep public apathy, media europhilia and lazy reporting.

At least UKIP is still going (no mean feat) and events can change the situation unexpectedly.

Anyone know any Eastenders actors with anti-EU sentiments and prepared to help? (Sounds daft but that's the only sort of thing that will get most of the public interested.)

Westcountryman

Let's face it - most people have a good standard of living and as such don't really care who or what governs the country provided they can drink their beer and watch sky tv in peace.

__________________
Manus haec inimica tyrannis ense petit placidam sub libertate quietam - "This hand of mine, which is hostile to tyrants, seeks by the sword quiet peace under liberty."

Niall Warry

[quote=mrabody;526243]Who said it was easy?

Anyway Jimmy Goldsmith( with whom I was a candidate in 1997) proved it can be done. His main ingredients being a cast iron will and money.

douglas denny

[quote=T.N.Warry;526267]Good God! so you are a Referendum Party veteran Nial (Niall, Neal, Niial - whatever. That bloody name I can never remember it !! )

Hmm That puts you a few brownie points higher up on the scale. Can't be so bad after all. Why did you allow yourself to go so wrong in listening to the pony-tailed nutter? Did he bite your neck with his two fangs?

The Referendum Party was a thing in a class all of its own at a point in space-time where the public were receptive to the idea. A unique political experiment that was spectacularly successful.

Maybe it can be repeated - when the time and political climate is right for UKIP?

DED.

Niall Warry

[quote=douglas denny;526270]To help expose the truth and clean up UKIP and try to get it electable again.

Ignoring UKIPs serious problems is IMO foolish. These problems will NEVER go away and will come back to haunt us. I know you believe that our leader in the main deserves unquestioned support. I say he needs to change or go and will keep saying so until he does.

douglas denny

[quote=T.N.Warry;526274]I think you are focussing on the wrong problems, or are seeing problems where there are none.

You, like Geoffrey and the pony-tailed-one go on about Ashford for example:
something that happened five years ago and which I happen to know was just an unfortunate business enterprise that was not closed soon enough and lost a lot of money. That's all. It was closed and that is that.
No point in banging-on about fantasies of monies going astray when you and no one else has any proof of such things. If there was it would have come out by now; and if it ever does I shall be the first to fall over in astonishment.

I think you should focus on the positive aspects of what UKIP does.

The Leader will finish his term in due course and be replaced. I can guarantee that the cause will still be there and just as necessary; UKIP will still be countering it in whatever way we can. Blaming NF for all the ills of UKIP is unproductive and simply not correct. All party leaders are subject to forces outside of their party over which they have no control. UKIP is no exception.

One thing for sure - the pony-tailed one is not the Messiah! More like Belzebub. He will lead you astray to the dark side........

DED
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chikrodah

I find myself in the unfortunate position of sympathising with both Douglas and Niall on this one. (Doug, you've got to stop doing this, it will ruin my reputation.)

I agree, on any reckoning, the Ashford Call Centre definitely did not learn from the lessons of past call centres. If anything, it appeared to be emulating their failures on a larger scale. I don't understand why, in which case, the UKIP hierarchy of the time didn't face up to that embarrassment and give the full details of the poor management skills/appalling accounting/naive campaigning/<insert reason here> embarked upon by the Call Centre backers and management.

With 20/20 hindsight, a bit of pain then would have saved this whole issue dragging on for years.

I also don't understand why, knowing that at least one of those involved in Ashford could be described as a past master of the failed business, there weren't additional independent checks imposed to ensure nothing happened to ruin the potential of a well-organised call centre. Surely due diligence was performed on those charged with running and directing the company?

At the very least, giving Douglas and others the benefit of the doubt, Ashford was a text-book case in how not to run a profitable business. It was also an object lesson in what UKIP needs to learn to be good at; including performing due diligence on those it entrusts with money, fund raising, etc.

Irrespective of any personal friendships involved, it makes no sense at a corporate/party level to involve those who a sizeable portion of the membership have doubts about. Company directors, not to mention most politicians, would have no qualms in disassociating themselves from friends who'd messed up on the scale of the Ashford management and directors. UKIP appears to have chosen to continue to throw work their way. No wonder this issue won't go away.

I also agree that there is little point at present in railing against Farage; he is well entrenched, despite the impulsive behaviour of certain UKIP staff and the business meeting has shown the unlikelihood of a coup being successful. Many UKIP members (and I don't include any of my UKIP friends in this) forget that it takes time to achieve anything, especially in such a small, splintered and opinionated party. No doubt the next leader of UKIP is already being groomed away from the glare of publicity. It might be worth a few moment's effort to determine who that is.

Jim Smith

"our party, UKIP, will be fortunate to return any MEP's to Brussels next year, and, certainly no more than a fraction of those we returned in 2004"

June 2009 will determine what happens to UKIP. The supporters of the present Leadership, people like DD and Raymond Finch clearly expect gains at the Euros. If that happens then UKIP will be making progress. But if instead of gains the number of MEPs are halved then the loyal supporters of the Leadership will be forced to confrint that reality.

The June 2009 Euro elections could be the most important elections in UKIP's history.

eublues

Anyone prepared to take on the leadership role has my admiration.

Richard Allen

Farage always said his aim was to win the euro elections (i.e win the most seats) and was elected leader on that platform. He will therefore be judged by how we do in those elections.