The Monarchy & UKIP

Aardvark · 09-07-2008, 03:12 PM

McUkip man, Good to see you using eighteenth century American spelling in deference to our US cousins.

UKIP would lose a lot of support if it even suggested dumping the monarchy as presently constituted. Only one UKIP candidate, Tolstoy IIRC, wants to change the constitutional arrangements and put a descendant of Bonnie Prince Charlie on the throne of Scotland.

Of course it is always feasible that HMTQ is pro-EU. If she is not her advisers might be.

Earthling · 09-07-2008, 06:43 PM

Gordon Brown gave Royal assent to the Lisbon Treaty, not the Queen. It is in a thread on here somewhere.

noachian · 30-07-2008, 09:25 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Mikeuk

If she isn't prepared to stand up for the rights of the people there is no point in keeping her and her unappealing brood.

This is ridiculous! She has a ceremonial and politically neutral role. Most if not all Parliamentary Republics have 'powerless' Head's of State.

The Monarchy is practically vital to Britain's political culture....because an office doesn't hold political power; that means its 'useless'? ridiculous! You need to reread up on your political theory.

The very fact that the Monarch doesn't hold political prerogatives is what is beautifully unique about Constitutional Monarchy. It is what keeps our Head of State; the person who is suppose to reprisent our country, culture and values, out of party politics. That is why the Monarchy manifests unity within the country; because people are not politically split over the Head of State.

People really need to review the argument for monarchy before actually setting themselves against it! Why do you think its been here for so long?!

Smidgey · 31-07-2008, 01:41 AM

Perhaps you should provide some for us then Noachian?

Why is democracy vital to British political culture?

Why do you think the monarch represents our culture and values? She doesn't represent mine and Prince Charles, the same man who gives speeches to the EU which are rather pro-EU, certainly does not.

There is no need to take that tone to Mike, if he disagrees with you it is probably not from a lack of understanding the situation - if someone disagrees with you, to yell at them that they do not know what they are talking about is not only a poor argument, but it is made even poorer when you don't even attempt to educate in response. You made a lot of wild claims with no evidence or proof of them.

P.S. Why do you love the monarch so much? Can you not think for yourself or do you need an old lady in London to do it for you?

douglas denny · 31-07-2008, 07:15 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Smidgey

Perhaps you should provide some for us then Noachian?

Why is democracy vital to British political culture?

Why do you think the monarch represents our culture and values? She doesn't represent mine and Prince Charles, the same man who gives speeches to the EU which are rather pro-EU, certainly does not.
P.S. Why do you love the monarch so much? Can you not think for yourself or do you need an old lady in London to do it for you?

Because in a representative democracy with the Monarch as head of state, the Monarch is part of the tripartite pillars of the constitution:- Monarch; Parliament: independent Judiciary.

The Morarch is the head of the armed forces too, which means no politician can become the head of the ultimate force in the country; the allegiance of the armed forces is to the monarch only - not some Johnny-come-lately like Tony Bliar who could do untold damage (as indeed he did anyway).

It does not matter too much who the actual person is as Monarch - it is the institution and its constitutional aspects which are most important to the stability of our political system and culture.

DED.

Bob FM · 31-07-2008, 07:22 AM

One only has to look at a country like Spain to know what happens when the Monarchy are deposed. God Save the Queen.

rjt · 31-07-2008, 07:24 AM

Perhaps those blaming the Queen ought to turn there fire on the real problem, and that is that people keep voting for pro EU partys.

Bob FM · 31-07-2008, 07:46 AM

rjt, that would tend then to indicate that all those old stager UKIPer's who keep telling us new members we are wrong, ill informed, ignorant amongst other things, haven't got the message over very well. Lets hope us new people can.

g hall · 31-07-2008, 05:46 PM

The UK's "unwritten constitution" has been frigged around with for decades if not centuries with changes by different parties it is time we started again and as I said the original constitution by the founding fathers could be redily adapted for the UK
The other thing we need is better education for all and get the population involved and participating in governing OURSELVES

The problem is that too many vested and powerful institutions would not be happy as they would lose influence and power and wealth

noachian · 31-07-2008, 05:52 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Smidgey

Perhaps you should provide some for us then Noachian?

Why is democracy vital to British political culture?

Why do you think the monarch represents our culture and values? She doesn't represent mine and Prince Charles, the same man who gives speeches to the EU which are rather pro-EU, certainly does not.

There is no need to take that tone to Mike, if he disagrees with you it is probably not from a lack of understanding the situation - if someone disagrees with you, to yell at them that they do not know what they are talking about is not only a poor argument, but it is made even poorer when you don't even attempt to educate in response. You made a lot of wild claims with no evidence or proof of them.

P.S. Why do you love the monarch so much? Can you not think for yourself or do you need an old lady in London to do it for you?

Smidgey; I 'love' the Queen so much because she reprisents the crown; whch ultimately reprisents the laws which have evolved from it. Freedom etc....

And if somebody ignorantly dissagrees with me I have the RIGHT to educate them, with all do respect Smidgey you can't tell me that should not defend the Queen. And the Queen does reprisent the country's values and laws; whether you follow or agree with them is entirely up to you.

If I choose to follow the Sovreign of teh Crown; then that is MY CHOICE. I will defend the Crown because it reprisents the laws of the United Kingdom.

I was bould with Mikeuk because I am sick of the ignorance and hostility towards a woman who does is so devoted to her job, and please don't counter argue that Hitler was good at his job because there is a difference and you know it. She, along with most other people; deserves the respect and gratetude of her subjects. It is pure iron-arrogance if one chooses to be disrespectful to her. Although any socially minded being would know that.

If I believe somebody is wrong; I argue against them; just as you are doing with me now!

View Poll Results: Should UKIP withdraw its support of the monarchy
Never under any curcumstances	21	48.84%
Only if warrented but so far it is not	10	23.26%
We should consider it in light of ratifying the treaty	5	11.63%
Yes withdraw support right now	7	16.28%
Voters: 43. You may not vote on this poll

09-07-2008, 03:12 PM	#11 (permalink)
Aardvark Moderator Join Date: Dec 2004 Location: Oxonia Posts: 3,556	McUkip man, Good to see you using eighteenth century American spelling in deference to our US cousins. UKIP would lose a lot of support if it even suggested dumping the monarchy as presently constituted. Only one UKIP candidate, Tolstoy IIRC, wants to change the constitutional arrangements and put a descendant of Bonnie Prince Charlie on the throne of Scotland. Of course it is always feasible that HMTQ is pro-EU. If she is not her advisers might be. __________________ When in Woking do as the Wokes do. "I do not wish to form my opinions by thoughtlessly quoting others; I wish others to support their opinions by sensibly quoting me." Paul Wesson (Aardvark) 13th April 2008

09-07-2008, 06:43 PM	#12 (permalink)
Earthling Member Join Date: May 2008 Location: Cheshire Posts: 284 Party: UKIP	Gordon Brown gave Royal assent to the Lisbon Treaty, not the Queen. It is in a thread on here somewhere. __________________ Earthling's Blog Don't let EU rule Britannia! Vote UKIP and say NO to Brussels Bureaucracy.

31-07-2008, 01:41 AM	#14 (permalink)
Smidgey Uber Member Join Date: Feb 2006 Location: Edinburgh Posts: 2,129 Party: Libertarian Party	Perhaps you should provide some for us then Noachian? Why is democracy vital to British political culture? Why do you think the monarch represents our culture and values? She doesn't represent mine and Prince Charles, the same man who gives speeches to the EU which are rather pro-EU, certainly does not. There is no need to take that tone to Mike, if he disagrees with you it is probably not from a lack of understanding the situation - if someone disagrees with you, to yell at them that they do not know what they are talking about is not only a poor argument, but it is made even poorer when you don't even attempt to educate in response. You made a lot of wild claims with no evidence or proof of them. P.S. Why do you love the monarch so much? Can you not think for yourself or do you need an old lady in London to do it for you? __________________ How vain is man, who boasts in fight the valour of gigantic might! -Georg Friedrich Händel

31-07-2008, 07:24 AM	#17 (permalink)
rjt Uber Member Join Date: Oct 2004 Location: Aldershot Posts: 5,248	Perhaps those blaming the Queen ought to turn there fire on the real problem, and that is that people keep voting for pro EU partys. __________________ Mr Delors said that he wanted the European Parliament to be the democratic body of the community, The Commission to be The Executive and The Council Of Ministers The Senate. NO! NO! NO! (Margaret Thatcher 30 Oct 1990) Ignore List: The Prophets of ST Al the Unelectable.

31-07-2008, 07:22 AM	#16 (permalink)
Bob FM Senior Member Join Date: Mar 2008 Location: South Marston Swindon Posts: 1,119	One only has to look at a country like Spain to know what happens when the Monarchy are deposed. God Save the Queen.

31-07-2008, 07:46 AM	#18 (permalink)
Bob FM Senior Member Join Date: Mar 2008 Location: South Marston Swindon Posts: 1,119	rjt, that would tend then to indicate that all those old stager UKIPer's who keep telling us new members we are wrong, ill informed, ignorant amongst other things, haven't got the message over very well. Lets hope us new people can.

31-07-2008, 05:46 PM	#19 (permalink)
g hall Uber Member Join Date: Nov 2006 Posts: 4,940	The UK's "unwritten constitution" has been frigged around with for decades if not centuries with changes by different parties it is time we started again and as I said the original constitution by the founding fathers could be redily adapted for the UK The other thing we need is better education for all and get the population involved and participating in governing OURSELVES The problem is that too many vested and powerful institutions would not be happy as they would lose influence and power and wealth __________________ "That government is best which governs least." "This is a sharp Medicine, but it is a Physician for all diseases and miseries". "To be "matter of fact" about the world is to blunder into fantasy --and dull fantasy at that, as the real world is strange and wonderful."

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