Earthling

He is probably referring to EU withdrawal.

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Earthling's Blog

Don't let EU rule Britannia! Vote UKIP and say NO to Brussels Bureaucracy.

Mikeuk

UKIP needs a cleanout, but it will bounce back when the Tories end up on the ropes after winning the next election.

a swansong 4 europe

I do honestly believe that UKIP's future can only be as some sort of English separatist movement as its British agenda is failing badly in my eyes. It has produced not a single noteworthy result in a first past the post system in either Wales or Scotland and its primary support base and also membership, I presume, are English dominated.

Some of that could also be applied to the BNP but they have won elections in Wales, and did produce a 3.4% result in the general election in Scotland. To be fair, the Welsh results are almost certainly in some cases due to "English" settlement, and in Scotland, in Glasgow, due to the "loyalist" influences.

I have always felt that only an ENGLISH solution is the most realistic end game, as support from Wales and Scotland for a "British" agenda has always been miserabley p*ss poor. The National Front in the 70's suffered the same consequences by trying to be a British party when it was almost exclusively representative of the English population (even if they regarded themselves as British).

Therein lies the fault for most patriotic parties, they continue to confuse Englishness with Britishness, partly as a result of the fact that urban England has a large population from the Celtic fringes of the British Isles. Ironically, nationalism and patriotism have seemingly always been dominated by those from these groups in my experience, which is quite amusing really.

UKIP needs a really big strategic re-think, and that should realistically included a possible merger with the English Democrats OR simply a re-branding as an English independence party; staying on a course of a UK solution will fail and fail miserably

T.N.Warry

I agree totally UKIP will go NOWHERE under Nigel and his cabal. UKIP is simply tarred by far too much corruption. (and for BobFM's sake - currently unproven yet still morally reprehensible and will I hope shortly start to be proved as the chickens come home to roost)

However we should stay clear of the BNP and English Democrats which have I believe never repudiated a rascist past a fact which may not be appreciated by many new supporters of both parties.

Clippo

C_Steam wrote:-
&
Millenium3 wrote:-
Both of you have been around UKIP and this forum since its’ inception to realise that this option is easy to say (as many others here have also done) but incredibly difficult to implement.
As one who has ‘dipped his toe’ into such waters, I can assure you it a very frustrating business just getting even a handful of people together & pulling in the same direction – (& that’s no insult to anybody else in case it is misinterpreted by anybody who may read it.)

And then there is the ‘killer’ question – where do you get sufficient funds from to start a new party ?

Another problem is publicity. We all like to think our ideas are important, especially here in this forum but let’s face it, at the moment we are what ? about a couple of dozen active posters who the world is just passing us by.

Sorry to be so depressing but imo now, the best option is a surprise putsch into UKIP and get the National Executive to wag the MEP’s tails rather than the other way round. (But then of course you risk losing funders). A hopeless case either way.

Millennium3

I think the only difference now is that everyone must accept that none of the eurosceptic parties have any realistic chance of influencing UK politics, by holding a significant number of seats at Westminster, before the LT is ratified and implemented - nor by the time QMV comes into force. I know it is stumbling, but it didn't get this far without some very powerful backers - and they are not going to give up.

The most likely outcome is that some solution will be found and it will come into force as planned or a little later. After five years from that date QMV will take effect - around the time of the GE after next. I don't believe that the party winning that election, so soon after QMV takes effect, could not get us out, but by the time of the following GE, I think it will be very difficult if not impossible, and this will be the case for a number of generations. We will then be in the 'post democratic era', as Mandleson described it, the United States of a European superstate.

If the eurosceptic realise that alone they simply cannot prevent this happening, the only chance is for them to work together on some limited policy agenda. Also that when this state does arise, all of their precious policies will be just pipe dreams - this is necessary if the urgency of the situation is to be responded to - action was required yesterday.

a swansong 4 europe

I don't think it is entirely fair to say that none of the euroseptic parties will have any influence on UK politics. Certainly, next year's Euro elections may see a big loss for the UKIP but could results in wins for the BNP. This could be interepted as a fall in support for eurosceptic attitudes for smaller parties but a rise for the (probably) big winners at the time, the Tories, who are always regarded as THE eurosceptic party, however false that is.

I will also repeat, that for the minor anti-EU parties to succeed, they will have little choice but to agree to NOT fight each other in parliamentary seats, though the Euro elections are slightly different.

Millennium3

I did say at Westminster - the only place that changes can be made.

a swansong 4 europe

I appreciate that, but the influence of the Euros does have some feedback into other areas, and as I recall UKIP did get that good Westminster result (was it in Hartlepool?) AFTER the Euro elections.

Unfortunately, the leadership, true to form, screwed that up after the AGM in the autumn later that year.

Millennium3

Lets not lose sight of the size of the task - at least to replace the Lib/Dems [or Labour?] as third largest party in about six years!