list of prospective ukip MEPs in the West Country

a swansong 4 europe · 01-07-2008, 10:01 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Anthony Butcher

She sounds perfect for UKIP and would be very popular with the majority of members I think.

Yes, EUKIP - promoting equality of ALL kinds - NOT!

How is promoting racial equality something that EUKIP members try to justify at all opportunities, but when the subject of religious or sexual "equality" comes up, they fall down like pins in a bowling alley, odd that one?

chikrodah · 02-07-2008, 07:55 AM

No doubt, if members are so fed up with UKIP as to decide to stand as Independents (at a cost of £5000 each for an MEP slot, £500 for a GE PPC), they will be honourable enough to resign from the party first. If they didn't, I'm sure the local RO would take the appropriate steps to revoke membership.

At that point, they are no longer part of UKIP and cannot be deemed to be damaging the party. Unless, of course, UKIP is of the opinion that voting for anybody else other than UKIP is damaging the party. Antagonistic Independents (what a good name for a rock band

) would be no different in that respect than the general Tory, Labour or LibDem campaigners. A campaign focussed purely on "don't vote for UKIP, the lying B'Stards" would damage the independent candidate as much as it would UKIP.

Local, hardworking branch members tend to resent carpet-baggers at any level. Those who get parachuted in need both dedication and charisma to overcome that resentment. Ms. Harrison, no doubt, is aware of that, not to mention Ms. Tingle, Mr. Van der Elst, Count Tolstoy-Miloslavsky, Lynette Nazemi-Afshar and others. (Please note that I'm not claiming anything regarding those whose late arrival and/or unexpected and rapid promotion has been met with resentment by local branches).

It is a fact of life that carpet-bagging is deemed a political necessity on occasion. It's also a fact of life that said carpet-baggers are resented and suffer from lack of trust and support unless they are able to convince and lead their party to an acceptable result.

The hustings is only one test. The real test is what they are like during the build up to the official campaigning, how determined they are to canvass support, bring new members into their branch(es), fund-raise, etc. That's what will eventually win the branch members over. Woe betide any suspected carpet-bagger who thinks they can be a paper candidate, or jet in for photo-calls in the week before polling day.

gawain · 02-07-2008, 08:45 AM

Chikrodah,
I concur completely with your points.

HULKMAN · 02-07-2008, 02:15 PM

Come off it Gawain. This women was only in the party a few weeks and yet goes on the list. The fact that she is also relative of Graham Booth makes it even more iffy. Don't try to spin your way out of it. It stinks!

chikrodah · 02-07-2008, 02:50 PM

Hulkman, your lack of political nous is worrying. All political parties tend to actively seek high calibre candidates from outside the party, in order to widen appeal and dilute what might otherwise become a stagnant political gene-pool.

Good long-term politicians, like good-quality journalists and business people, survive on their ability to network with others of all sorts of political and business affiliations. The more astute make sure that their networking does nothing to detract from either their own reputation or that of their party.

A quick search found a number of Julie Harrisons in the Devon area, one of whom is a company director, another of whom is either a current or ex-councillor. Either of those Ms. Harrison' would no doubt be a welcome addition to a small political party, based on expertise alone.

It is highly likely that Julie Harrison was invited to apply to be on the list prior to her joining UKIP. That sort of political networking goes on all the time in all political parties; it doesn't guarantee either her acceptance by the members at hustings or her success at the polls. Is it possible, Hulkman, that either you or one of your immediate family was not successful in attempts to get on the MEP shortlist?

HULKMAN · 02-07-2008, 02:55 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by chikrodah

Hulkman, your lack of political nous is worrying. All political parties tend to actively seek high calibre candidates from outside the party, in order to widen appeal and dilute what might otherwise become a stagnant political gene-pool.

Good long-term politicians, like good-quality journalists and business people, survive on their ability to network with others of all sorts of political and business affiliations. The more astute make sure that their networking does nothing to detract from either their own reputation or that of their party.

A quick search found a number of Julie Harrisons in the Devon area, one of whom is a company director, another of whom is either a current or ex-councillor. Either of those Ms. Harrison' would no doubt be a welcome addition to a small political party, based on expertise alone.

It is highly likely that Julie Harrison was invited to apply to be on the list prior to her joining UKIP. That sort of political networking goes on all the time in all political parties; it doesn't guarantee either her acceptance by the members at hustings or her success at the polls. Is it possible, Hulkman, that either you or one of your immediate family was not successful in attempts to get on the MEP shortlist?

Don't try and spin it. As for the MEP lists why would I want to spend half the year in Brussels? I enjoy life too much for that. I just feel sorry for those in the SW who have been hoodwinked.

Besides you are not even in UKIP so why bother?

Geoffrey Collier · 02-07-2008, 03:54 PM

Chikrodah: Charming lady though you are, your kindness and generosity of spirit, is blinding you to the true nature of reality.

The American philosopher Henry Thoreau, once said that, 'Strong circumstantial evidence, is when fish are found in the milk'. Do you not agree that fish have been found in the milk? When we find that good candidates, with a proven record over the years, are rejected from the selection list, by those in the employ of the current MEP, is transparent? Can the number of existing MEPs' and paid servants, who have appeared on the list, have earned it by merit. Like Caesar's wife, is it not only innocent, but above suspicion? Would a man, travelling on a Clapham omnibus, and who had heard the evidence, believe that all is well? Naivety differs from sound judgement, because the latter is well seasoned with healthy scepticism. That is what we should encourage among the membership, and not suppress.

I am not too concerned, at this statge, about the Selection Lists, because much activity is pending.

chikrodah · 02-07-2008, 05:25 PM

Geoffrey, thanks for reminding me about the man on the Clapham omnibus!

I've tried to avoid partisanship based on the morality of what is a typical practice in all political parties; just because the practice is typical does not mean it sits well within my own moral compass. The lady herself may be blameless of anything other than political ambition. She should be judged on her own merits and actions.

Where the current issue lies, to my mind, is in a party organisation which, for whatever reason, has allowed a number of branch and regional committees, as well as HO functionaries, to mismanage (if not railroad) AGMs, candidate selection, committee selection and many other administrative functions.

As to those reasons, perm any 8 from 10 - lax standards, incompetent administrative leadership, overstretched regional officers' resources, overworked leaders, determination to turn a blind eye, gallant amateurs; it doesn't, unfortunately, really matter.

What matters is that the reputation of UKIP has been destroyed by the reasons behind the very public in-fighting that has taken place since the earliest days of the party.

Many joined in 2004, buoyed by the spin that here was a party trying to clean British politics Augean stables at the same time as reducing the EU's hold on our sovereignty. Many left after the bitter partisan behaviour on all sides during both the botched NEC election and the leadership election of 2006. Many more have departed since as their multi-year membership has finished.

Those that are left are entrenching firmly into a number of camps, the survivors of which will not be counted until after the Euro elections next year at the earliest.

I'm not sure even healthy scepticism will prevail in 2009.

Reg Anthony · 02-07-2008, 11:38 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Anthony Butcher

I am sure that there will be some people seeking to get on the list in other regions. For example, I can't see many people wanting to be on the North East list; there is almost zero chance of being elected. I can foresee people like Steve Allison perhaps looking to go to the East Midlands... just for example.

Gerard Batten will no doubt have something to say about carpetbaggers.

I would be very pleased to see Steve Allison at or near the top of the East Mids list. A long-standing, talented and very hard-working member who has achieved much electoral success already and indeed has shown the rest of us how to do it. And if Barcelona is reportedly deemed near enough by some for the occasional parachute drop into East Mids, then Hartlepool is practically next door.

Anthony Butcher · 03-07-2008, 12:23 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Reg Anthony

I would be very pleased to see Steve Allison at or near the top of the East Mids list. A long-standing, talented and very hard-working member who has achieved much electoral success already and indeed has shown the rest of us how to do it. And if Barcelona is reportedly deemed near enough by some for the occasional parachute drop into East Mids, then Hartlepool is practically next door.

Steve Allison has held the poisoned chalice of being the UKIP elections coordinator for quite a while now. The few occasions that I had anything to do with him, he seemed competent and pleasant; both of which should be highly rated in UKIP.

The North East is an impossible nut to crack for UKIP, unless there is still anyone other than Nigel Farage who thinks that the party is on track to double its number of MEPs. Hence it would be a shame to waste one of their more useful assets for the sake of not wanting carpetbaggers. Obviously there are issues with standing in another reason, and some people in the party (Gerard Batten) appear to be strongly against it.

02-07-2008, 08:45 AM	#33 (permalink)
gawain Member Join Date: Dec 2005 Posts: 279	fair point Chikrodah, I concur completely with your points.

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02-07-2008, 07:55 AM	#32 (permalink)
chikrodah Senior Member Join Date: Jan 2005 Location: Midlands Posts: 1,872	No doubt, if members are so fed up with UKIP as to decide to stand as Independents (at a cost of £5000 each for an MEP slot, £500 for a GE PPC), they will be honourable enough to resign from the party first. If they didn't, I'm sure the local RO would take the appropriate steps to revoke membership. At that point, they are no longer part of UKIP and cannot be deemed to be damaging the party. Unless, of course, UKIP is of the opinion that voting for anybody else other than UKIP is damaging the party. Antagonistic Independents (what a good name for a rock band ) would be no different in that respect than the general Tory, Labour or LibDem campaigners. A campaign focussed purely on "don't vote for UKIP, the lying B'Stards" would damage the independent candidate as much as it would UKIP. Local, hardworking branch members tend to resent carpet-baggers at any level. Those who get parachuted in need both dedication and charisma to overcome that resentment. Ms. Harrison, no doubt, is aware of that, not to mention Ms. Tingle, Mr. Van der Elst, Count Tolstoy-Miloslavsky, Lynette Nazemi-Afshar and others. (Please note that I'm not claiming anything regarding those whose late arrival and/or unexpected and rapid promotion has been met with resentment by local branches). It is a fact of life that carpet-bagging is deemed a political necessity on occasion. It's also a fact of life that said carpet-baggers are resented and suffer from lack of trust and support unless they are able to convince and lead their party to an acceptable result. The hustings is only one test. The real test is what they are like during the build up to the official campaigning, how determined they are to canvass support, bring new members into their branch(es), fund-raise, etc. That's what will eventually win the branch members over. Woe betide any suspected carpet-bagger who thinks they can be a paper candidate, or jet in for photo-calls in the week before polling day.

02-07-2008, 02:15 PM	#34 (permalink)
HULKMAN Junior Member Join Date: Jun 2008 Posts: 92	Come off it Gawain. This women was only in the party a few weeks and yet goes on the list. The fact that she is also relative of Graham Booth makes it even more iffy. Don't try to spin your way out of it. It stinks!

02-07-2008, 02:50 PM	#35 (permalink)
chikrodah Senior Member Join Date: Jan 2005 Location: Midlands Posts: 1,872	Hulkman, your lack of political nous is worrying. All political parties tend to actively seek high calibre candidates from outside the party, in order to widen appeal and dilute what might otherwise become a stagnant political gene-pool. Good long-term politicians, like good-quality journalists and business people, survive on their ability to network with others of all sorts of political and business affiliations. The more astute make sure that their networking does nothing to detract from either their own reputation or that of their party. A quick search found a number of Julie Harrisons in the Devon area, one of whom is a company director, another of whom is either a current or ex-councillor. Either of those Ms. Harrison' would no doubt be a welcome addition to a small political party, based on expertise alone. It is highly likely that Julie Harrison was invited to apply to be on the list prior to her joining UKIP. That sort of political networking goes on all the time in all political parties; it doesn't guarantee either her acceptance by the members at hustings or her success at the polls. Is it possible, Hulkman, that either you or one of your immediate family was not successful in attempts to get on the MEP shortlist?

02-07-2008, 03:54 PM	#37 (permalink)
Geoffrey Collier Senior Member Join Date: Dec 2007 Posts: 1,323	Chikrodah: Charming lady though you are, your kindness and generosity of spirit, is blinding you to the true nature of reality. The American philosopher Henry Thoreau, once said that, 'Strong circumstantial evidence, is when fish are found in the milk'. Do you not agree that fish have been found in the milk? When we find that good candidates, with a proven record over the years, are rejected from the selection list, by those in the employ of the current MEP, is transparent? Can the number of existing MEPs' and paid servants, who have appeared on the list, have earned it by merit. Like Caesar's wife, is it not only innocent, but above suspicion? Would a man, travelling on a Clapham omnibus, and who had heard the evidence, believe that all is well? Naivety differs from sound judgement, because the latter is well seasoned with healthy scepticism. That is what we should encourage among the membership, and not suppress. I am not too concerned, at this statge, about the Selection Lists, because much activity is pending.

02-07-2008, 05:25 PM	#38 (permalink)
chikrodah Senior Member Join Date: Jan 2005 Location: Midlands Posts: 1,872	Geoffrey, thanks for reminding me about the man on the Clapham omnibus! I've tried to avoid partisanship based on the morality of what is a typical practice in all political parties; just because the practice is typical does not mean it sits well within my own moral compass. The lady herself may be blameless of anything other than political ambition. She should be judged on her own merits and actions. Where the current issue lies, to my mind, is in a party organisation which, for whatever reason, has allowed a number of branch and regional committees, as well as HO functionaries, to mismanage (if not railroad) AGMs, candidate selection, committee selection and many other administrative functions. As to those reasons, perm any 8 from 10 - lax standards, incompetent administrative leadership, overstretched regional officers' resources, overworked leaders, determination to turn a blind eye, gallant amateurs; it doesn't, unfortunately, really matter. What matters is that the reputation of UKIP has been destroyed by the reasons behind the very public in-fighting that has taken place since the earliest days of the party. Many joined in 2004, buoyed by the spin that here was a party trying to clean British politics Augean stables at the same time as reducing the EU's hold on our sovereignty. Many left after the bitter partisan behaviour on all sides during both the botched NEC election and the leadership election of 2006. Many more have departed since as their multi-year membership has finished. Those that are left are entrenching firmly into a number of camps, the survivors of which will not be counted until after the Euro elections next year at the earliest. I'm not sure even healthy scepticism will prevail in 2009.