Aaarrgghh Former UKIP MEP supports secession from the UK

Wowbanger TIP · 30-06-2008, 09:24 PM

This has been tried before, but with more class.

Principality of Sealand - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia

There is a whole zoo of "micronations" out there.

david H · 30-06-2008, 09:51 PM

W, that sounds like what Birmingham is breaking down in to! I listened to Pat Buchanan on The Political Cesspool last night. He believes that future wars are going to be ethic or racial as opposed to ideological. Our respective nations are breaking down into tribalism.

Bob FM · 01-07-2008, 06:51 AM

david h dangerous words. These things have a habit of becoming self fulfilling prophecies.

Aardvark · 01-07-2008, 08:10 AM

W, and yet the owner lives in Essex and carries a British passport as his own ones are worthless. His postal address for his 'independent' country is a British PO Box No. It's a fantastic scam that has yielded a cash reward for Roy Bates and yet he has no responsibility. Sealand was at least outside territorial waters when claimed, although why the Government didn't extend the waters around it one doesn't know. Forvik is clearly inside territorial waters.

It's interesting to note that when someone was ill a RAF helicopter (UK taxes) took them to a mainland hospital (UK taxes). If I was in charge I'd have left the b@ggers to make their own arrangements. Independence means precisely that.

a swansong 4 europe · 01-07-2008, 09:37 PM

Since when does independence mean you cannot use the resources of another country? How 'independent' is Britain come to that on energy, food, raw materials etc - very little!

How many micro-nations get virtually all their income from either tourists or the sale of postage stamps, more than one, I am sure.

Aardvark · 01-07-2008, 11:27 PM

Independent countries trade with each other. They buy and sell products. If you use a German hospital it is under a reciprocal EU arrangement, if you use a Nigerian hospital you pay. Sealand does not trade with this country and pays nothing for facilities used. The UK does not use resources of other countries without contributing, indeed the UK is a net contributor through EU subsidies and international aid to other countries.

The UK does pays for all food imports, pays for any energy imports and buys raw materials on the international markets using an internationally traded currency.

Sealand gets no income from tourism as many small countries do. A stamp not issued in a UPU country is unlikely to be collected. I have a few novelties in my stamp collection from my childhood. They have no value.

To compare Sealand (popn 0) with the UK is frankly ridiculous. Sealand is not recognised as a country by any international agreement and is a lump of metal. The UK sits on the UN security council, heads the Commonwealth, is a member of the EU, NATO and OSCE inter alia.

Forvik is not a micro-nation in the way some of the Carribean countries are. The Carribean countries do make money from tourism and it is probably their key earner with the demise of fishing and cash crops. They are recognised as independent states by the UN and have inflluence there. They will be at the Beijing Olympics as members of the IOC which Sealand is not.

So independent is Sealand that it has no regular inhabitants and produces nothing of its own. Even the stamps and coins are printed or minted in the UK.

a swansong 4 europe · 02-07-2008, 06:22 PM

I was not making a direct comparison with Sealand but the principle of any area of land claiming to be a free an independent state. Since when has the principle of inter connected trade been a criteria for recognition?

Are there not also states that exist for all intents and purposes as independent self-governing bodies, but are not internationally recognised by world authorities and in soime cases only by that of similar ethnic states, northern Cyprus and that of the Trans wotsit place north of Moldavia spring to mind.

The individuals of many states do not earn their income within the boundaries of the home nation, but have their income regarded as that of the home nation if it is subject to whatever 'laws' agreed by its home state and the money is hence "returned" for expenditure within the boundaries of the home nation for whatever purpose.

I say "good luck" to those that pursue such a dream if it is the majority wish of those resident for the greater part of the year in that land to so choose, even if that is only by virtue of property ownership. All free states have to start somewhere; at first with occuptaion then settlement, then construction of all things necessary for a given population. Why can't one man be an island if he so chooses?

01-07-2008, 08:10 AM	#44 (permalink)
Aardvark Moderator Join Date: Dec 2004 Location: Oxonia Posts: 3,720	W, and yet the owner lives in Essex and carries a British passport as his own ones are worthless. His postal address for his 'independent' country is a British PO Box No. It's a fantastic scam that has yielded a cash reward for Roy Bates and yet he has no responsibility. Sealand was at least outside territorial waters when claimed, although why the Government didn't extend the waters around it one doesn't know. Forvik is clearly inside territorial waters. It's interesting to note that when someone was ill a RAF helicopter (UK taxes) took them to a mainland hospital (UK taxes). If I was in charge I'd have left the b@ggers to make their own arrangements. Independence means precisely that. __________________ When in Woking do as the Wokes do. "I do not wish to form my opinions by thoughtlessly quoting others; I wish others to support their opinions by sensibly quoting me." Paul Wesson (Aardvark) 13th April 2008 Last edited by Aardvark; 01-07-2008 at 08:13 AM.

01-07-2008, 11:27 PM	#46 (permalink)
Aardvark Moderator Join Date: Dec 2004 Location: Oxonia Posts: 3,720	Independent countries trade with each other. They buy and sell products. If you use a German hospital it is under a reciprocal EU arrangement, if you use a Nigerian hospital you pay. Sealand does not trade with this country and pays nothing for facilities used. The UK does not use resources of other countries without contributing, indeed the UK is a net contributor through EU subsidies and international aid to other countries. The UK does pays for all food imports, pays for any energy imports and buys raw materials on the international markets using an internationally traded currency. Sealand gets no income from tourism as many small countries do. A stamp not issued in a UPU country is unlikely to be collected. I have a few novelties in my stamp collection from my childhood. They have no value. To compare Sealand (popn 0) with the UK is frankly ridiculous. Sealand is not recognised as a country by any international agreement and is a lump of metal. The UK sits on the UN security council, heads the Commonwealth, is a member of the EU, NATO and OSCE inter alia. Forvik is not a micro-nation in the way some of the Carribean countries are. The Carribean countries do make money from tourism and it is probably their key earner with the demise of fishing and cash crops. They are recognised as independent states by the UN and have inflluence there. They will be at the Beijing Olympics as members of the IOC which Sealand is not. So independent is Sealand that it has no regular inhabitants and produces nothing of its own. Even the stamps and coins are printed or minted in the UK. __________________ When in Woking do as the Wokes do. "I do not wish to form my opinions by thoughtlessly quoting others; I wish others to support their opinions by sensibly quoting me." Paul Wesson (Aardvark) 13th April 2008

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30-06-2008, 09:24 PM	#41 (permalink)
Wowbanger TIP Senior Member Join Date: Jul 2007 Posts: 813	This has been tried before, but with more class. Principality of Sealand - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia There is a whole zoo of "micronations" out there.

30-06-2008, 09:51 PM	#42 (permalink)
david H Senior Member Join Date: Oct 2007 Posts: 1,390	W, that sounds like what Birmingham is breaking down in to! I listened to Pat Buchanan on The Political Cesspool last night. He believes that future wars are going to be ethic or racial as opposed to ideological. Our respective nations are breaking down into tribalism.

01-07-2008, 06:51 AM	#43 (permalink)
Bob FM Senior Member Join Date: Mar 2008 Location: South Marston Swindon Posts: 1,126	david h dangerous words. These things have a habit of becoming self fulfilling prophecies.

01-07-2008, 09:37 PM	#45 (permalink)
a swansong 4 europe Member Join Date: Mar 2008 Posts: 411	Since when does independence mean you cannot use the resources of another country? How 'independent' is Britain come to that on energy, food, raw materials etc - very little! How many micro-nations get virtually all their income from either tourists or the sale of postage stamps, more than one, I am sure.

02-07-2008, 06:22 PM	#47 (permalink)
a swansong 4 europe Member Join Date: Mar 2008 Posts: 411	I was not making a direct comparison with Sealand but the principle of any area of land claiming to be a free an independent state. Since when has the principle of inter connected trade been a criteria for recognition? Are there not also states that exist for all intents and purposes as independent self-governing bodies, but are not internationally recognised by world authorities and in soime cases only by that of similar ethnic states, northern Cyprus and that of the Trans wotsit place north of Moldavia spring to mind. The individuals of many states do not earn their income within the boundaries of the home nation, but have their income regarded as that of the home nation if it is subject to whatever 'laws' agreed by its home state and the money is hence "returned" for expenditure within the boundaries of the home nation for whatever purpose. I say "good luck" to those that pursue such a dream if it is the majority wish of those resident for the greater part of the year in that land to so choose, even if that is only by virtue of property ownership. All free states have to start somewhere; at first with occuptaion then settlement, then construction of all things necessary for a given population. Why can't one man be an island if he so chooses?