Aaarrgghh Former UKIP MEP supports secession from the UK

C_steam · 23-06-2008, 07:25 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Hartlepool

C_s,hardly the same siuation is it,a King on his own little island,and me in my seaside apartment,claiming independence from the country for my plot and its holdings?

My understanding is that the situation is exactly the same. There is nowhere now that isn't 'owned' by a government. The fact that it is an island has nothing to do with it. All the 'island' part does is clearly define the boundaries. You'd need to own the whole apartment block and land though.

So in which way do you think the situation is different?

Geoffrey Collier · 23-06-2008, 07:44 PM

C Stream: I doubt if it does clearly define the boundaries. If it can claim to be an independent state/country, which I am certain it cannot, what about territorial waters? Does the Isle of Man have it's own waters? I'll bet you that it does not.

C_steam · 23-06-2008, 07:50 PM

Geoffrey. my point is just because it is a physically remote area which is geographically clearly defined, doesn't matter a jot. Your post agrees this point, i think.

Hartlepool · 23-06-2008, 07:54 PM

The island is fully owned by Mr Hill,he is going to declare independence,and set up his own territorial waters/boundaries.

I know of hundreds of islands for sale and have looked at some of them.Its incorrect to say that everything is owned by a Government.

Hartlepool · 23-06-2008, 08:01 PM

C_s,how about this one for starters then,we could go halfs on it too,as cheap as chips.

Big Fish Cay, Bahamas, Caribbean

Geoffrey Collier · 23-06-2008, 08:12 PM

C-Steam: I agree with you, but I'm sad that there will be no EU fishing subsidies for this new nation. It is a very unfair world.

C_steam · 23-06-2008, 08:18 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Hartlepool

The island is fully owned by Mr Hill,he is going to declare independence,and set up his own territorial waters/boundaries.

So? It still is no different from a land owner declaring independance from Britain. He's a nutter, and he'll lose, because ownership of the land does not give you the right to cede from the country in which it is part of.

Quote:

Originally Posted by Hartlepool

I know of hundreds of islands for sale and have looked at some of them.Its incorrect to say that everything is owned by a Government.

If they are for sale, someone owns them........ And ownership is not the same as having rights. As anyone who has fallen foul of a compulsory purchase order will tell you.

Hartlepool · 23-06-2008, 08:47 PM

C_s,your post 21 which I answered says this,"There is nowhere now that isn't owned by a Government".

With respect,that statement is also incorrect,as you know.

The changing of horses and the setting of false trails is a trademark of yourself on here.

It only works with some of us,some of the time,but not this one though.

Go buy an island,become a King of it all.

http:Big Fish Cay, Bahamas, Caribbean

C_steam · 23-06-2008, 09:00 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Hartlepool

C_s,your post 21 which I answered says this,"There is nowhere now that isn't owned by a Government".

With respect,that statement is also incorrect,as you know.

er, no I don't, except in the case of artificial constructs outside of teritorial waters - which is outside the scope of our discusion. To be clear - I hold it to be true that whatever you own, whether island or land, does not give you the right to cede from the nation state to which that land belongs. furthermore, the 'purchase' of such land or island does not give you rights over and above the rights which are granted by the nation state to which that land or island is part of.

In other words, i know of no cases where you are able to buy land (including an island) which would allow the buyer to declare themselves independant - a new country in effect - apart from the one case of artificial constructs outside of territorial waters. No changing horses here HP!

I'd really like to hear differently, but as always i fear the politicos have it all sewn up.

chikrodah · 23-06-2008, 09:45 PM

Not to suggest that this has any bearing, but the Royal Scottish Geographical Society seems to believe that Forewick Holm aka Forvik exists within the Parish boundaries of Wall and Sandness. Not only that, but the Shetland Islands Council development plans for Papa Stour include Forewick Holm.

I wonder what the reaction of the Shetland Islands Council is to this?

23-06-2008, 07:50 PM	#23 (permalink)
C_steam Super Moderator Join Date: Oct 2004 Location: Paddling up 5hit creek..... Posts: 7,964	Geoffrey. my point is just because it is a physically remote area which is geographically clearly defined, doesn't matter a jot. Your post agrees this point, i think. __________________ -------------------------------------------------- Users on ignore list: None. I've got to have people to laugh at. Cowardly Posters* list: BobFM, Bellatrix.*People who post personal insults then refuse to reply .

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23-06-2008, 07:44 PM	#22 (permalink)
Geoffrey Collier Senior Member Join Date: Dec 2007 Posts: 1,323	C Stream: I doubt if it does clearly define the boundaries. If it can claim to be an independent state/country, which I am certain it cannot, what about territorial waters? Does the Isle of Man have it's own waters? I'll bet you that it does not.

23-06-2008, 07:54 PM	#24 (permalink)
Hartlepool Uber Member Join Date: Jan 2005 Location: Northern England Posts: 7,105 Party: Free England Party	The island is fully owned by Mr Hill,he is going to declare independence,and set up his own territorial waters/boundaries. I know of hundreds of islands for sale and have looked at some of them.Its incorrect to say that everything is owned by a Government.

23-06-2008, 08:01 PM	#25 (permalink)
Hartlepool Uber Member Join Date: Jan 2005 Location: Northern England Posts: 7,105 Party: Free England Party	C_s,how about this one for starters then,we could go halfs on it too,as cheap as chips. Big Fish Cay, Bahamas, Caribbean

23-06-2008, 08:12 PM	#26 (permalink)
Geoffrey Collier Senior Member Join Date: Dec 2007 Posts: 1,323	C-Steam: I agree with you, but I'm sad that there will be no EU fishing subsidies for this new nation. It is a very unfair world.

23-06-2008, 08:47 PM	#28 (permalink)
Hartlepool Uber Member Join Date: Jan 2005 Location: Northern England Posts: 7,105 Party: Free England Party	C_s,your post 21 which I answered says this,"There is nowhere now that isn't owned by a Government". With respect,that statement is also incorrect,as you know. The changing of horses and the setting of false trails is a trademark of yourself on here. It only works with some of us,some of the time,but not this one though. Go buy an island,become a King of it all. http:Big Fish Cay, Bahamas, Caribbean

23-06-2008, 09:45 PM	#30 (permalink)
chikrodah Senior Member Join Date: Jan 2005 Location: Midlands Posts: 1,872	Not to suggest that this has any bearing, but the Royal Scottish Geographical Society seems to believe that Forewick Holm aka Forvik exists within the Parish boundaries of Wall and Sandness. Not only that, but the Shetland Islands Council development plans for Papa Stour include Forewick Holm. I wonder what the reaction of the Shetland Islands Council is to this?