What should be the priority for UKIP right now?

cassie · 04-06-2008, 11:59 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Geoffrey Collier

Cassie and BobFM: Only just noticed your postings due to being interrupted by a telephone call. It is a scandal that we agree to any interference from Brussels. I voted against remaining in the 'Common Market' in 1975, while a member of the Anti-Common Market League. A member of UKIP for fourteen years and involved in many various modes of action: I have been consistent in my opposition to the EU. How does that chronology compare with your involvements in the cause? I don't know; your records may be far better. The destruction of the Fishing Industry was the first price that we had to pay in order to sign the Treaty of Rome. Following the admission of Spain into the EU; their admission date, pre-dated the agreed date of accesss to British waters. This was deemed illegal under EU law, and we had to compensate Spanish fisherman. Why would I possibly disagree with changing injustices like the one identified by Cassie. My solution, however, is removing ourselves from the EU and its Parliament. Cassie seems to see our salvation in an English Parliament. What on earth could they do in this matter? Their remit would not cover foreign treaty negotiations. State your opinions and be tolerant of those of others. Abuse which lacks both wit or wisdom, adds little to any debate. Bof FM posts his ambition to enter Westminster as a UKIP MP. I hope that he acquires better debating skills before that, 'triumph at the polls'. As an ex-policeman youself, Bob FM, I think that we should arrange tutorials in Statecraft for you, from Twizzel.

I'm sure that my personal history has little if anything to do with the course I now advocate but, since you ask, I was one of the minority which voted to leave the then EEC in 1975 whilst all the 'bright young things' were ensnared with the idea that membership was going to be so beneficial for our economy! My MP at the time was one, Sir Derek Walker-Smith, Member for Hertfordshire East, who was one of the Conservative minority arguing against the line being purveyed by Wilson [and Thatcher, who had become Opposition Leader a few months earlier.]

Consequently, I feel that my position over the intervening three decades has been consistent. Even so, I welcome anyone to share my opinions regardless of whether or not they are recent converts to it!

The Cross of StGeorge blog

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Bob FM · 04-06-2008, 12:07 PM

Please GC, I am more than happy to debate with anyone who has something constructive to say rather than try to baffle everyone with historical, and total inappropriate comparisons. For those who know and have heard my debates on radio and television many occasions live, will know that I can hold my own with the best of them. So GC any-time you want a live face to face debate on the merits of the current party as against your historical perspective feel free. I would however point out that experienced politicians, have taken your condescending attitude towards me and have been found wanting.

cassie · 04-06-2008, 12:40 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Bob FM

Please GC, I am more than happy to debate with anyone who has something constructive to say rather than try to baffle everyone with historical, and total inappropriate comparisons. For those who know and have heard my debates on radio and television many occasions live, will know that I can hold my own with the best of them. So GC any-time you want a live face to face debate on the merits of the current party as against your historical perspective feel free. I would however point out that experienced politicians, have taken your condescending attitude towards me and have been found wanting.

I note with great interest and sympathy your comments.

I am not aware of the 'abuse' insinuated by oor Geoffrey, but irrelevant remarks about you needing tutorials in statecraft are really overstepping the mark! However, they are entirely consistent with me being told that I need lessons about the constitution and that I'm going around in circles etc.

On the evidence, it seems that Geoffrey has a pythonian sense of humour which means that his comments should not be regarded too seriously! After all, neither John Cleese nor Michael Palin could ever be condescending and, when viewed through this prism, I find it difficult to see GC's comments as being any different!

All power to yer elbow Bob!
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Geoffrey Collier · 04-06-2008, 02:18 PM

Cassie & BobFM: I don't think we are likely to agree on the means by which we can maintain the Union of the United Kingdom. Given a choice between structures justified by a constitutional necessity and history, and those merely intended to placate an emotional populism, I have no doubt what the choice of wise people should be.

I am more than prepared to accept your offer of a public debate Bob FM. I will produce
irrefutable arguments and evidence for our case against the EU. I will also explain why any party which seeks to espouse our cause, must, in all matters, be not only guiltless, but, like Caesar's wife, 'above suspicion'. Corruption is something which I condemn unreservedly, and would never condone or mitigate it, as some do, in the name of modernity.

I will also applaud the merits of consistency, and ask if it is wise to tolerate branch chairmen, like the one for Swindon, who encourage long-standing UKIP members to defect to the BNP. That from someone, who claims for himself a sharp political instinct, must have been done deliberately, while mindful of the damage he was doing to UKIP.
With supporter like that, our detractors have an unpaid labour force toiling from within.

That fact that you can read opinions from me, which you claim you cannot either understand or their relevance discern, constitutes neither a question or an argument,
but it does suffice as a confession.

Don't encourage the poor fellow Cassie, he needs restraint, if only to protect himself from the worst excesses of his own folly.

cassie · 04-06-2008, 03:08 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Geoffrey Collier

Cassie & BobFM: I don't think we are likely to agree on the means by which we can maintain the Union of the United Kingdom. Given a choice between structures justified by a constitutional necessity and history, and those merely intended to placate an emotional populism, I have no doubt what the choice of wise people should be.

I am more than prepared to accept your offer of a public debate Bob FM. I will produce
irrefutable arguments and evidence for our case against the EU. I will also explain why any party which seeks to espouse our cause, must, in all matters, be not only guiltless, but, like Caesar's wife, 'above suspicion'. Corruption is something which I condemn unreservedly, and would never condone or mitigate it, as some do, in the name of modernity.

I will also applaud the merits of consistency, and ask if it is wise to tolerate branch chairmen, like the one for Swindon, who encourage long-standing UKIP members to defect to the BNP. That from someone, who claims for himself a sharp political instinct, must have been done deliberately, while mindful of the damage he was doing to UKIP.
With supporter like that, our detractors have an unpaid labour force toiling from within.

That fact that you can read opinions from me, which you claim you cannot either understand or their relevance discern, constitutes neither a question or an argument,
but it does suffice as a confession.

Don't encourage the poor fellow Cassie, he needs restraint, if only to protect himself from the worst excesses of his own folly.

_____________________

T.N.Warry · 04-06-2008, 10:36 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by YI MEMBER

The only way to put pressure on Westminster is to take some of their votes, and do you seriously think people will vote if we declare UKIP to have no interest in actually taking power? You are shooting yourself in the foot here, I know that people in this party all have varying aims but whatever your aim, the only way to achieve it is to get more votes, and the only way to do that is to start appealing to a wider range of people.

Yup and hell will freeze over in the time needed for UKIP to gain power through votes cast!!!!

T.N.Warry · 04-06-2008, 10:39 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Earthling

I agree to an extent, but I don't see anything wrong in investing money into other policy areas. Sure, if we can get the leading parties to take us out of the EU then that is great. But where is the harm in making us an electable party and appealing to the wider voting public?

To be honest I would love it if we can reach Lib-Dem levels of support someday, or even getting 10% of the vote. The media could not ignore us and we would be in a sound influential position.

The thing is the time scale involved to get to 10%. Our PRIORITY NOW is surely to get out the EU and ANYTHING which takes our eyes off that is just pure vanity over sanity.

Bob FM · 05-06-2008, 08:29 AM

GC you are priceless, or could it be worthless, with UKIP supporters like you, why should we be worried about the future.??????

Geoffrey Collier · 05-06-2008, 09:30 AM

Bob FM: With supporters like me, there is need need to worry about the future, but the supporters like me must always constitute a significant part of the membership. Should those who seek only self-aggrandisement, riches or power devoid of purpose, continue to hold-sway, we are finished. Make it plain to all, the original aim of this party - the extrication of this nation from the EU- will not be compromised or diluted by those who cannot distinguish principle from principal, or self-interest from the national one.

Over the years in UKIP, I have met some of the most decent people one is ever likely to encounter; but I have also met some of the worst. We delude ourselves, if we imagine that we can entrust either power or the cause, to those who are unashamedly corrupt and dishonest. They are going to be held to account to the membership, for the wrongs which they have imposed upon them, and thereby, hopefully, present a foundation for a new beginning. We don't have to mince our words, we know who these people are; we know what they have done, and why they must depart. That is our only hope.

Loyalty, is vital if we are to succeed, but loyalty must never be the garment in which cowardice is clothed. You will get there Bob FM, I'm sure that you are a well intentioned fellow; just stay the course.

cassie · 05-06-2008, 09:48 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Bob FM

GC you are priceless, or could it be worthless, with UKIP supporters like you, why should we be worried about the future.??????

Don't encourage the poor fellow Bob! He needs restraint, if only to protect himself from the worst excesses of his own pomposity!

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04-06-2008, 12:07 PM	#42 (permalink)
Bob FM Senior Member Join Date: Mar 2008 Location: South Marston Swindon Posts: 1,905	Debating Please GC, I am more than happy to debate with anyone who has something constructive to say rather than try to baffle everyone with historical, and total inappropriate comparisons. For those who know and have heard my debates on radio and television many occasions live, will know that I can hold my own with the best of them. So GC any-time you want a live face to face debate on the merits of the current party as against your historical perspective feel free. I would however point out that experienced politicians, have taken your condescending attitude towards me and have been found wanting.

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04-06-2008, 02:18 PM	#44 (permalink)
Geoffrey Collier Senior Member Join Date: Dec 2007 Posts: 1,189	Cassie & BobFM: I don't think we are likely to agree on the means by which we can maintain the Union of the United Kingdom. Given a choice between structures justified by a constitutional necessity and history, and those merely intended to placate an emotional populism, I have no doubt what the choice of wise people should be. I am more than prepared to accept your offer of a public debate Bob FM. I will produce irrefutable arguments and evidence for our case against the EU. I will also explain why any party which seeks to espouse our cause, must, in all matters, be not only guiltless, but, like Caesar's wife, 'above suspicion'. Corruption is something which I condemn unreservedly, and would never condone or mitigate it, as some do, in the name of modernity. I will also applaud the merits of consistency, and ask if it is wise to tolerate branch chairmen, like the one for Swindon, who encourage long-standing UKIP members to defect to the BNP. That from someone, who claims for himself a sharp political instinct, must have been done deliberately, while mindful of the damage he was doing to UKIP. With supporter like that, our detractors have an unpaid labour force toiling from within. That fact that you can read opinions from me, which you claim you cannot either understand or their relevance discern, constitutes neither a question or an argument, but it does suffice as a confession. Don't encourage the poor fellow Cassie, he needs restraint, if only to protect himself from the worst excesses of his own folly.

05-06-2008, 08:29 AM	#48 (permalink)
Bob FM Senior Member Join Date: Mar 2008 Location: South Marston Swindon Posts: 1,905	GC you are priceless, or could it be worthless, with UKIP supporters like you, why should we be worried about the future.??????

05-06-2008, 09:30 AM	#49 (permalink)
Geoffrey Collier Senior Member Join Date: Dec 2007 Posts: 1,189	Bob FM: With supporters like me, there is need need to worry about the future, but the supporters like me must always constitute a significant part of the membership. Should those who seek only self-aggrandisement, riches or power devoid of purpose, continue to hold-sway, we are finished. Make it plain to all, the original aim of this party - the extrication of this nation from the EU- will not be compromised or diluted by those who cannot distinguish principle from principal, or self-interest from the national one. Over the years in UKIP, I have met some of the most decent people one is ever likely to encounter; but I have also met some of the worst. We delude ourselves, if we imagine that we can entrust either power or the cause, to those who are unashamedly corrupt and dishonest. They are going to be held to account to the membership, for the wrongs which they have imposed upon them, and thereby, hopefully, present a foundation for a new beginning. We don't have to mince our words, we know who these people are; we know what they have done, and why they must depart. That is our only hope. Loyalty, is vital if we are to succeed, but loyalty must never be the garment in which cowardice is clothed. You will get there Bob FM, I'm sure that you are a well intentioned fellow; just stay the course.