Internationalist

It is an occasional concern to voters. Now and then it rises in the opinion polls. However, to make it the centrepiece of a party platform is mistaken in my view.

Britannist's two examples are both elections where there was a massive revolt against the governing party. In 1979, following the 'Winter of Discontent', the Conservatives won convincingly but there is no evidence that the immigration issue played a significant factor in their victory.

In 2004 UKIP won around 16% of the vote (IIRC) but there were many reasons for that, not least the 'Kilroy-Silk' factor. Sure, there is a constituency for the anti-immigration message and it might have helped UKIP at that time but that was still a small minority. It is an issue that repels at least as much as it attracts.

In any case, my argument was that too much of a focus on immigration is bound to make voters associate UKIP as an anti-immigration party like the BNP, and that still stands.

I assure you that I do live on this planet by the way, Earthling.

Earthling

You do make some valid points, I did not mean to imply that we should press immigration as the main issue, certainly not, I agree with you on that. Already people have constantly tried to tarnish us with the same brush as the BNP, this would not help!

What I was saying though was that in recent years, particularly when the floodgates opened to a bigger EU in 2004, people are growing more and more concerned about immigration, and angry over the Government's lax attitude about it and propaganda that it benefits everyone in the country when it does not.

Unemployment is down but 80% of new jobs go to migrant workers with more British-born workers struggling to get a job. I feel the more the government ignores the issue of immigration then the more angry people will become. I'm not saying that we should deport all immigrants or introduce a "Homeward Bound" scheme as the BNP proposed a few years ago. The UKIP is simply not that kind of party, we are not racist and from what I gather we are pro multi-culturalism providing immigration is controlled correctly and people have the time to learn what it means to be British, rather than handing out British passports like confetti, one every three minutes, like Labour do.

Of course they can't really do anything about it while we are in the EU!

So I think as well as concentrating on non-European issues to broaden our appeal to voters, I also think that we should continue our efforts to educate them exactly how big an impact the EU has over us all - right from immigration to how often our bins get emptied and how many post offices get closed.

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Britannist

...and what you call the "revolt" (the big vote for parties promising to stop high levels of immigration in 1979 and 2004) was partly caused by anger at the lack of firm immigration controls - as opinion polls confirmed at the time.

I am afraid this is not correct - there were massive electoral swings to the Conservatives in constituencies where immigration was an issue at the 1979 General Election. The fact that the Conservatives under Lady Thatcher addressed this issue at the 1979 General Election probably made the difference which resulted in her getting enough votes to win rather than Labour coming back as as minority administration for another term.

Britannist

Thank you for your agreement on this Earthling.

Of course immigration is a concern to voters - all opinion poll show this to be the case. It is an issue important to the majority of British electors.

And it is issue important not just to those born here: one opinion poll not to so long ago revealed that 52% of immigrants in the UK also want firm and strict immigration controls.

Britannist

Your interpretation above, Earthling, is, of course, correct.

Under this Labour Government the UK has experienced the biggest influx in her history - before Labour came to power in 1997 they promised to tightly control immigration. They have done the very reverse - many assume deliberately.

Some people who came here as immigrants are now finding it difficult to get jobs because the more recent eastern european arrivals are offering to work longer for less.

UKIP is right to propose that immigration be stopped for the next five years while existing problems from the influx are dealt with.

You blog is very-well presented Earthling (a link to it can be found at the bottom of posting number 32 to this thread and in other postings from Earthling).

Bob FM

In a recent survey, when asked if we should be in or out of Europe, it was 51% in, 49% out, if i remember correctly. The poll asked a supplementary question around border controls. a huge 88% of the population said we should leave the EU if it meant regaining our borders. So it is very clear Immigration and the social impact it has in Britain is of even greater concern now than ever before. People who were previously neutral on the issue now see how the massive influx has put a strain on all our services, we are the 5th most densely populated country in Europe and simple cannot sustain more. It is said that the massive house building programme could be cut by 2/3rds if we were just catering for the domestic need. The list is endless but I fear as some indicate here, the PC brigade who could not counter the arguments in favour of a 5 year moratorium, would simply use the race card. What we in UKIP have to do is keep plugging away with the facts. The current economic climate, in a perverse way helps UKIP.

Populist Lee

Re-read my post again.

I woke up to the dangers of Immigration before you were born, my lad.

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a swansong 4 europe

As regards to Thatcher and her call to curb immigration (yet another Tory lie) this was clearly aimed at that time to take votes away from the National Front, to this end, she succeeded. The tabloid press proudly spoke of Thatcher's comments on people's feelings about immigration after a "World in Action" interview in late 1978, and the next day's headlines were along the lines of "going after the NF votes", with the NF logo displayed on a front page of a national tabloid (either the Mirror or the Sun).

Oddly, though, of the extra 3 million votes the Tories polled, nearly half of them came directly from the Liberals, and Labour's votes actually rose by 80,000. Despite this, the reason people put the Tories in was primarily that "Labour isn't working", which was to be soon followed by "neither are the Tories". This on the backend of the "winter of discontent". Within months of her victory, thousands of "boat people" were miraculously rescued from boats in south east asia and managed to paddle their way all the way to Britain's coast. I know it was via Hong Kong, but how can any one take a Tory seriously; they are as credible as a rice paper bog roll!

As for UKIP using the immigration issue and attempting to tie it in with the EU, is rather a subtle ploy to go after the BNP vote, basically like everyone else. For the 5 years I was an active member of UKIP from 1998 to 2003, not once did UKIP ever produce a single national leaflet on the issue of immigration, nor did it make much in the way of any national prounouncements on the subject. It took the arrival of islam critic Kilroy for UKIP to truly wake up to the issue and make it big in 2004.

Despite that, since 2004, UKIP has failed miserably in making the connection between the EU and immigation stick, and has a rather odd attitude in respect of migrants from the so-called new commonwealth. I mean, what on earth is zero migration meant to be about? So UKIP leaves the EU, and replaces half a million Poles, say, with half a million afro-asians, and as long as those numbers match the number of whites that have left Britain, then everything in the barnyard is hunky-dory? How does UKIP think up this load of **** and then expect sensible people to actually believe this baloney?

Earthling

If you insist... I am from Planet Earth. What about yourself?

Unfortunately I had no control of when I was born.
Is there an underlying message to your post, or is just supposed to be simply patronising?

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Populist Lee

Just pointing out that your Claim vis a vis BNP and UKIP membership at post #4 is giving UKIP up as a Hostage to Fortune.

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ENGLISH POPULISM
Stands as the only obstacle in the path of the Plutocrats
who seek to reduce all the Peoples of the World
to Economic and Political Slavery under Globalism


POPULISM MEANS WHAT YOU WANT IS WHAT YOU GET


Coming soon to your computer . . . DISSIDENT CONGRESS UK