UKIP wins seat on NHS Trust

Alex McKee · 29-05-2008, 07:55 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Barboo

A couple of minutes spent on the Trust's website elicited the above information, and whilst congratulations are due to John for winning his seat it really does not help the anti-EU cause to make this out as some sort of political victory when it wasn't.

Indeed. I rather thought that it would be the case but I was happy to wait and see if John would volunteer that.

eublues · 29-05-2008, 08:29 AM

This is a useful direction to go, though we need to be clear on the UKIP position on the key issues. We don't want to be just another pressure group simply calling for more of everything (i.e. more public spending).

johnwest · 29-05-2008, 09:09 AM

Just to clear things up. I checked to see if I could stand as a UKIP candidate. I was informed that I could represent the party by declaring it as a political interest on the voting slip. It is a shame that posters like Barboo are so negative by suggesting it was not a good result for UKIP.

johnwest · 29-05-2008, 09:31 AM

[quote=johnwest;506433]Just to clear things up. I checked to see if I could stand as a UKIP candidate. I was informed that I could represent the party by declaring it as a political interest on the voting slip. It is a shame that posters like Barboo are so negative by suggesting it was not a good result for UKIP.[/QUOTE

I should add that voters did not have to vote for me. The fact is they did and as a UKIP representative. As far as I am concerned that is good victory for the party. It proves that we are not just a one issue party.

Barboo · 29-05-2008, 11:30 AM

[quote=johnwest;506440]

Quote:

Originally Posted by johnwest

I checked to see if I could stand as a UKIP candidate. I was informed that I could represent the party by declaring it as a political interest on the voting slip. It is a shame that posters like Barboo are so negative by suggesting it was not a good result for UKIP.[/QUOTE

I should add that voters did not have to vote for me. The fact is they did and as a UKIP representative. As far as I am concerned that is good victory for the party.

It was not a result of any kind for UKIP, and I am not being negative. It was a personal success for you, for which I congratulate you, but you are being extremely misleading in trying to make out that it was a party victory. The guidance notes for candidates and the nomination form which you signed make it absolutely clear that far from it being an option for you to represent the party by declaring UKIP as a political interest, it was compulsory for you to declare your party membership in order for your nomination to be valid. You were in fact warned on the nomination form that though your declared (political/financial) interests would not prevent you from standing, the information would be circulated to voters as part of your election statement. You and all the other candidates, including the two Lib/Dem members, stood as individuals not as party representatives, and if anything trying to pretend otherwise detracts from your success rather than enhancing it.

chikrodah · 29-05-2008, 11:46 AM

Sorry John, but as somebody who made the first cut for a real NHS trust non-executive position, I have to agree with Barboo.

All public bodies require applicants for non-executive, governor or trustee roles to provide details of their political affiliations. Don't bother to make more of your declaration than that.

NHS Governors are essentially members of what used to be known as the Patients' Forums. They have little influence in the running of an NHS trust; less than the councillors on a Scrutiny Committee. You may help to appont the Chairman and Non-Execs to the Trust but you'll have little real influence over their actions.

Your posts on this subject come across as needlessly self-aggrandising and have put me off voting for you as either an NEC candidate, MEP candidate or GE PPC.

johnwest · 29-05-2008, 01:12 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by chikrodah

Sorry John, but as somebody who made the first cut for a real NHS trust non-executive position, I have to agree with Barboo.

All public bodies require applicants for non-executive, governor or trustee roles to provide details of their political affiliations. Don't bother to make more of your declaration than that.

NHS Governors are essentially members of what used to be known as the Patients' Forums. They have little influence in the running of an NHS trust; less than the councillors on a Scrutiny Committee. You may help to appont the Chairman and Non-Execs to the Trust but you'll have little real influence over their actions.

Your posts on this subject come across as needlessly self-aggrandising and have put me off voting for you as either an NEC candidate, MEP candidate or GE PPC.

You can't win with some people on this forum. So representing UKIP on a NHS trust is pointless is it? I am sure that many would disagree with you. I am simply trying to promote UKIP and our policies. Hence the conference on Law and Order and standing for this trust. You may call it self-aggrandising but I do not. In your book every UKIP candidate who stands and wishes to promote the party would be accused of that, including Nigel Farage when he appears on Question Time.

I am sure that when we get UKIP MPs elected you will still get some people complaining about it on this forum.

chikrodah · 29-05-2008, 02:05 PM

Don't be disingenuous, John.

All Barboo and I are pointing out is that you are not representing UKIP on a NHS Trust. You were elected for whatever qualities and experience you put down on your nomination form. Your party membership was incidental.

Nobody who chooses unpaid public service (trustees, governors, non-execs etc.) does so to represent a political party. The more cynical of us would suggest that Labour has pushed the bounds of decency with its population of certain NGOs and quangos, mind you, but they are still supposedly serviing the public because of their relative skills and experience, not their party membership.

The conference on Law and Order was badged as "UKIP's first...". Nothing wrong with that. You're active in UKIP, both as a Press Officer and as, amongst other things, a PPC. Nothing wrong with that either.

However, your original post misrepresented the truth:

Quote:

UKIP wins seat on NHS Trust
I am pleased to announce that I have been elected a governor of the Suffolk Mental Health NHS Trust. I will be representing the constituencies of Suffolk Coastal and Waveney. The trust has 8000 members and I was elected as a UKIP candidate.

I will fight to ensure better care and understanding for those with mental health problems or learning disabilties. I will also fight for better working conditions and pay for NHS staff.

You did not "win" anything. Being an elected governor is nothing like being an elected councillor.
You were not elected as a UKIP representative any more than the Lib Dem was elected as a Lib Dem. This was not a political election.
You were competing for one of 13 places; 26 nominees were accepted by close of nominations. You had a 50% chance of getting a place.
A NHS Trust constituency is not the same as a political constituency, unless of course you are arguing that Suffolk now has new political constituencies called "Learning Disabilities Service", "Mental Health Service", etc.
If you are representing the constituency of Waveney, you might as well resign now. Suffolk Mental Health Trust doesn't cover the people of Waveney apart from the provision of learning disability services.
You are there to provide a democratic link to "the people of Suffolk and Thetford". You are not there to "fight" for anything, least of all better pay and conditions for staff. Those matters are out of your control.
Governors do not get involved in running NHS services.

Now, either I can assume that you were promoting yourself to the point of being economical with both truth and underlying facts, or I can assume you are too unintelligent to understand what you nominated yourself for.

Which would you prefer?

BTW, I've been in the QT audience when Farage was on. No way was he self-aggrandising. If anything, he could have sold himself and his policies a bit more. He's got enough intelligence to know when to push himself forward and when to lie low - and before you make any more assumptions, I'm not even a fan of his.

mkpdavies · 29-05-2008, 02:25 PM

That fact John declared he was UKIP and still got voted on, is a remarkable success in my book.

johnwest · 29-05-2008, 02:37 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by chikrodah

Don't be disingenuous, John.

All Barboo and I are pointing out is that you are not representing UKIP on a NHS Trust. You were elected for whatever qualities and experience you put down on your nomination form. Your party membership was incidental.

Nobody who chooses unpaid public service (trustees, governors, non-execs etc.) does so to represent a political party. The more cynical of us would suggest that Labour has pushed the bounds of decency with its population of certain NGOs and quangos, mind you, but they are still supposedly serviing the public because of their relative skills and experience, not their party membership.

The conference on Law and Order was badged as "UKIP's first...". Nothing wrong with that. You're active in UKIP, both as a Press Officer and as, amongst other things, a PPC. Nothing wrong with that either.

However, your original post misrepresented the truth:

You did not "win" anything. Being an elected governor is nothing like being an elected councillor.
You were not elected as a UKIP representative any more than the Lib Dem was elected as a Lib Dem. This was not a political election.
You were competing for one of 13 places; 26 nominees were accepted by close of nominations. You had a 50% chance of getting a place.
A NHS Trust constituency is not the same as a political constituency, unless of course you are arguing that Suffolk now has new political constituencies called "Learning Disabilities Service", "Mental Health Service", etc.
If you are representing the constituency of Waveney, you might as well resign now. Suffolk Mental Health Trust doesn't cover the people of Waveney apart from the provision of learning disability services.
You are there to provide a democratic link to "the people of Suffolk and Thetford". You are not there to "fight" for anything, least of all better pay and conditions for staff. Those matters are out of your control.
Governors do not get involved in running NHS services.

Now, either I can assume that you were promoting yourself to the point of being economical with both truth and underlying facts, or I can assume you are too unintelligent to understand what you nominated yourself for.

Which would you prefer?

BTW, I've been in the QT audience when Farage was on. No way was he self-aggrandising. If anything, he could have sold himself and his policies a bit more. He's got enough intelligence to know when to push himself forward and when to lie low - and before you make any more assumptions, I'm not even a fan of his.

I really suggest that you get your facts right. For a start the voting slip clearly states 'Election of Governors to the Council of Governors. Public Constituency Suffolk Coastal and Waveney' I was elected to cover those areas. Thetford is covered by another governor.

I am also prepared to use the position of governor to fight for the better care and understanding of those with mental health problems or learning disabilties. For instance the trust will soon be running a anti-discrimination campaign to highlight bullying and negative attitudes towards those with learning disabilties. As the literature states 'Together, we can make a difference'. If we had no power as you suggest why bother with this? As a governor I can also highlight the poor working conditions and pay for those working in that particular section of the NHS. Using my position as a governor will hopefully mean the press will be more interested in covering such issues.

Rather than attack those of us who are trying to do something for the party and country I suggest you reserve your attacks for those who spend their whole time complaining and not doing. However, as you appear to be one of these people I don't hold out much hope.

29-05-2008, 02:25 PM	#19 (permalink)
mkpdavies Uber Member Join Date: Sep 2004 Location: Woking Posts: 30,604	That fact John declared he was UKIP and still got voted on, is a remarkable success in my book. __________________ http://brits4ronpaul.blogspot.com/ http://wokinglibertarians.blogspot.com/ http://lpuk.org My ignore list Labour, Blue Labour, Lib Dems

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29-05-2008, 08:29 AM	#12 (permalink)
eublues Uber Member Join Date: Nov 2004 Posts: 2,970	This is a useful direction to go, though we need to be clear on the UKIP position on the key issues. We don't want to be just another pressure group simply calling for more of everything (i.e. more public spending).

29-05-2008, 09:09 AM	#13 (permalink)
johnwest Senior Member Join Date: Oct 2004 Location: Suffolk Posts: 827 Party: UKIP	Just to clear things up. I checked to see if I could stand as a UKIP candidate. I was informed that I could represent the party by declaring it as a political interest on the voting slip. It is a shame that posters like Barboo are so negative by suggesting it was not a good result for UKIP.

29-05-2008, 09:31 AM	#14 (permalink)
johnwest Senior Member Join Date: Oct 2004 Location: Suffolk Posts: 827 Party: UKIP	[quote=johnwest;506433]Just to clear things up. I checked to see if I could stand as a UKIP candidate. I was informed that I could represent the party by declaring it as a political interest on the voting slip. It is a shame that posters like Barboo are so negative by suggesting it was not a good result for UKIP.[/QUOTE I should add that voters did not have to vote for me. The fact is they did and as a UKIP representative. As far as I am concerned that is good victory for the party. It proves that we are not just a one issue party.

29-05-2008, 11:46 AM	#16 (permalink)
chikrodah Senior Member Join Date: Jan 2005 Location: Midlands Posts: 1,416	Sorry John, but as somebody who made the first cut for a real NHS trust non-executive position, I have to agree with Barboo. All public bodies require applicants for non-executive, governor or trustee roles to provide details of their political affiliations. Don't bother to make more of your declaration than that. NHS Governors are essentially members of what used to be known as the Patients' Forums. They have little influence in the running of an NHS trust; less than the councillors on a Scrutiny Committee. You may help to appont the Chairman and Non-Execs to the Trust but you'll have little real influence over their actions. Your posts on this subject come across as needlessly self-aggrandising and have put me off voting for you as either an NEC candidate, MEP candidate or GE PPC.