Telegraph- MEPs to strip Eurosceptics of cash and influence

gawain · 29-05-2008, 04:20 PM

The visit was funded by Mr Bloom. Accompaning him were his UK PA and his Brussels researcher, his wife and a friend of his family who went along (and paid for herself). UKIP has not paid so much as a brass farthing. I went as somebody who knows and regularly communicates with international think tanks and the way in which the media works. Whilst there the visit was picked up by almost every English language newspaper/ and many local language papers in Northern India (particularly the Punjab). Mr Bloom appeared on a number of pan Indian news broadcasts and radio shows.

I believe that every MEP has a travel budget that allows them to travel outside the EU up to a figure of 2,500 pa (approx) euros on political business. To get the funding an MEP has to prove that there is a valid political reason, and provide an invitation. Whether he availed himself of this budget I do not know, nor really is it my place to ask. Whether he did, or did not is to me neither here nor there. I know of plenty of MEPs from different parties who take advantage of this budget to go on holiday, an then pop into the EU office in whatever country it is and pretend that it was a working visit - this has been reported in the press on a number of occasions, normally because I told them.

I can assure you that this trip was in no way a jolly. The political team (that is the four of us) had on afternoon off - and to be frank if you are going to travel half the way round the world and you do not buy presents for your family you are likely to be lynched on your return. The rest of the time was spent working.

My flights and hotels were paid for by Mr Bloom, as were all others apart for the family friend (I think). Expenses were paid by me. Therefore - and I am no expert - there is no need to involve the NEC. (As a matter of interest - what could you possibly mean by a potential cost?)

That is what happens in this game. Whether you are paid (as I am) or not, we all know that politics is expensive hobby. I personally have been paid by the Ind/Dem group for the pasty 3 years. In that time much of my income and free time has been recycled back into the party in various ways. I am happy to do so, because, like any activist I believe that it is a worthwhile cause, and requires some level of personal sacrifice - even such minor sacrifice as money and time. I look at the time, effort and money put in by my entirely unpaid constituency Chairman and, frankly I am in awe.

Mr Bloom chooses to further the party's aims with his own money as he sees fit. Sometimes it is having hundreds of thousands of UKIP beermats printed, sometimes it is building international contacts.

The results were very positive so far. The invitation to the Sikh congress, amongst other things is, in my eyes, very good news.

Darren Green · 29-05-2008, 06:07 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Geoffrey Collier

Darren Green: What people need to understand, is that it is a contradiction for UKIP MEPs' to agree to sit in an EU Parliamnet. What is our purpose, and how will it be served by sitting in a Parliament in Strasbourg? We have no purpose that can be served by that parliament, and nothing has been achieved for the benefit of the UK over the past decade, but the harm that has been done is manifest for all to see; we now have a leader who insists that we should think Pan-European. This cannot continue without doing irreparable damage to the United Kingdom. We are in the business of serving the interests of this nation, and that is quite a different matter from serving the interests of one's self.

Once again Geoffrey, I completely agree. After almost 10 years in the job what exactly have our MEPs achieved in Strasbourg?

Sod all! That's what.

We should not be there. Only our own Parliament can free us from the EU.

Geoffrey Collier · 29-05-2008, 06:18 PM

Gawain: So we are to assume that Think-Tanks have been established in India, to further UKIP's objectives, and this was done entirely at Godfrey Bloom's volition. There is no financial involvement for UKIP, but presumably there will be on-going contact with these people both in India and at home. No involvement by the NEC was deemed necessary and 'potential-cost' is a business term outside your experience.

Mr Bloom chooses to further the party's aims with his own moneyas he sees fit. I recall that Pheonix Forum, using their own initiative and money, organised a meeting in Bournemouth and every obstacle was put in our way. Indeed, you attended as one of the observers, for the objectors. But there we are!

gawain · 30-05-2008, 08:14 AM

No Mr Collier, these are pre-existing think tanks that espouse a free market, free trade philosophy, who argue firmly against EU tarriff barriers. It is, I believe always good to be in communication with like minded people who can endorse our policies from outtside.

Of course carrier pigeons don't work at that distance, but emails and so on are remarkably cheap.

On the potential cost question. I really don't see any potential cost, but I can see potential and real benefits. Don't condescend it dosen't become you. I have run my own business, I am fully aware of the concept, but if you are looking for unknown unknowns then I cannot help you, which is why I asked the question.

Indeed I did attend the second Pheonix conference, out of my own volition. When in the UK I live in Dorset, and as I was visiting my family that week, it seemed sensible to pop along. I am well aware there is disquiet amongst some mebers about the way the party is working, and as such it is sensible, I would have thought to hear it first hand rather than just through the pages of this forum. It was an interesting meeting and not without merit.

fordtit · 30-05-2008, 09:31 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Darren Green

I couldn't agree more, Geoffrey.

Enoch Powell would never endorse any candidate who was prepared to sit in the European Parliament.

I was not aware Enoch said this. Do you have a link to where and when he said this?

Bob FM · 30-05-2008, 09:32 AM

I really do find it quite staggering that poor old GC, is so obsessed with ' Reds under the bed', that he cannot see that he makes a complete fool of himself everytime he posts. He may have a couple of like minded followers, but the vast majority within the party are working for the future, we do not look back, or are frankly interested in looking back. My group in Swindon is working it's socks off gaining valuable support for UKIP and for what we wish to see achieved for Britain. If Mr Collier doesn't like the UKIP of now then join the BNP or some other little Eglander party, I am sure that would be more to his liking. Even they have had to admit that UKIP have stolen a March on them, by standing in the locals and Crewe.

Geoffrey Collier · 30-05-2008, 12:07 PM

BobFM: I think that you are a person more motivated by enthusiasm than reason. Possibly, you become enthusiastic about something for twenty minutes and then move on: no doubt that has been the story of your life. It does appear that your political Pauline conversion to national sovereignty dates from quite recent times.

I am not a little Englander, anymore than I am a little European. I support the concept of independent nation states, co-existing in a global world. Those nations states will be manageable as entities, and able to preserve their cultures and all that deemed important to them. Obviously that is not to your liking, but it is sufficient for me.

For you, I realise that Swindon is the new modern Rome, it is where all the activity and advanced political thinking is taking place, but other places are making a contribution too: indeed, have been for quite a long time in many constituencies. The original objectives of UKIP, must remain if we are to have a future. Radical changes, such as pan-Europeanism, cannot be imposed upon the party by a few careerists; more interested in self-advancement than political progress. Whatever we may decide in the future, there can only be hope of success, providing the party is sound and honest. Virtually destroying a Cheshire branch, for example, on some ludicrous pretext of showing a CDV, when the real reason was the branche's wish for the election accounts for Wales to be elucidated. Presumably, by contrast, you would prefer to see 'loyalty' enshrined as a substitute for moral courage. Not all would agree with that placebo for the conscience.

If you don't like what I write, don't bother either to read my postings or give me advice.
'Reds under the beds', 'little Englanders', 'BNP'; you have no concept of the British tradition of political dissent, and as a consequence you resort to that type of abuse and cliche`in a pathetic attempt to silence those with whom you disagree.

Darren Green · 30-05-2008, 05:56 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by fordtit

I was not aware Enoch said this. Do you have a link to where and when he said this?

No. I can't provide a link, sorry.

Alan Sked made this claim several years ago, in a letter to The Times.

I am willing to take Dr. Sked at his word. (He is, after all, a professor of international history at the LSE and an admirer of Enoch Powell).

If I can find a copy of his letter at home, I'll post it here.

Regards,
Darren

Geoffrey Collier · 30-05-2008, 07:15 PM

Gwain: Mr Towler, in your second last posting, you claimed that the purpose of the visit was to establish Think Tanks in India. In your last posting you claim that the Think Tanks were already extant. A slight contradiction, therefore, as to the real purpose of the visit.

I think that the NEC would be failing in their responsibilities if they did not seek further clarification about this matter. Mr Bloom has frequently brought the party into disrepute in the past. are we to presume that in the land of the mahatma his conduct was impeccable? Should you believe that anything which I say is libellous, you must take any action you feel appropriate.

HM · 30-05-2008, 07:22 PM

Quote:

Mr Bloom has frequently brought the party into disrepute in the past

In what ways? (If I may ask)

30-05-2008, 09:32 AM	#26 (permalink)
Bob FM Senior Member Join Date: Mar 2008 Location: South Marston Swindon Posts: 1,013	GC I really do find it quite staggering that poor old GC, is so obsessed with ' Reds under the bed', that he cannot see that he makes a complete fool of himself everytime he posts. He may have a couple of like minded followers, but the vast majority within the party are working for the future, we do not look back, or are frankly interested in looking back. My group in Swindon is working it's socks off gaining valuable support for UKIP and for what we wish to see achieved for Britain. If Mr Collier doesn't like the UKIP of now then join the BNP or some other little Eglander party, I am sure that would be more to his liking. Even they have had to admit that UKIP have stolen a March on them, by standing in the locals and Crewe.

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29-05-2008, 04:20 PM	#21 (permalink)
gawain Member Join Date: Dec 2005 Posts: 257	The visit was funded by Mr Bloom. Accompaning him were his UK PA and his Brussels researcher, his wife and a friend of his family who went along (and paid for herself). UKIP has not paid so much as a brass farthing. I went as somebody who knows and regularly communicates with international think tanks and the way in which the media works. Whilst there the visit was picked up by almost every English language newspaper/ and many local language papers in Northern India (particularly the Punjab). Mr Bloom appeared on a number of pan Indian news broadcasts and radio shows. I believe that every MEP has a travel budget that allows them to travel outside the EU up to a figure of 2,500 pa (approx) euros on political business. To get the funding an MEP has to prove that there is a valid political reason, and provide an invitation. Whether he availed himself of this budget I do not know, nor really is it my place to ask. Whether he did, or did not is to me neither here nor there. I know of plenty of MEPs from different parties who take advantage of this budget to go on holiday, an then pop into the EU office in whatever country it is and pretend that it was a working visit - this has been reported in the press on a number of occasions, normally because I told them. I can assure you that this trip was in no way a jolly. The political team (that is the four of us) had on afternoon off - and to be frank if you are going to travel half the way round the world and you do not buy presents for your family you are likely to be lynched on your return. The rest of the time was spent working. My flights and hotels were paid for by Mr Bloom, as were all others apart for the family friend (I think). Expenses were paid by me. Therefore - and I am no expert - there is no need to involve the NEC. (As a matter of interest - what could you possibly mean by a potential cost?) That is what happens in this game. Whether you are paid (as I am) or not, we all know that politics is expensive hobby. I personally have been paid by the Ind/Dem group for the pasty 3 years. In that time much of my income and free time has been recycled back into the party in various ways. I am happy to do so, because, like any activist I believe that it is a worthwhile cause, and requires some level of personal sacrifice - even such minor sacrifice as money and time. I look at the time, effort and money put in by my entirely unpaid constituency Chairman and, frankly I am in awe. Mr Bloom chooses to further the party's aims with his own money as he sees fit. Sometimes it is having hundreds of thousands of UKIP beermats printed, sometimes it is building international contacts. The results were very positive so far. The invitation to the Sikh congress, amongst other things is, in my eyes, very good news.

29-05-2008, 06:18 PM	#23 (permalink)
Geoffrey Collier Senior Member Join Date: Dec 2007 Posts: 864	Gawain: So we are to assume that Think-Tanks have been established in India, to further UKIP's objectives, and this was done entirely at Godfrey Bloom's volition. There is no financial involvement for UKIP, but presumably there will be on-going contact with these people both in India and at home. No involvement by the NEC was deemed necessary and 'potential-cost' is a business term outside your experience. Mr Bloom chooses to further the party's aims with his own moneyas he sees fit. I recall that Pheonix Forum, using their own initiative and money, organised a meeting in Bournemouth and every obstacle was put in our way. Indeed, you attended as one of the observers, for the objectors. But there we are!

30-05-2008, 08:14 AM	#24 (permalink)
gawain Member Join Date: Dec 2005 Posts: 257	No Mr Collier, these are pre-existing think tanks that espouse a free market, free trade philosophy, who argue firmly against EU tarriff barriers. It is, I believe always good to be in communication with like minded people who can endorse our policies from outtside. Of course carrier pigeons don't work at that distance, but emails and so on are remarkably cheap. On the potential cost question. I really don't see any potential cost, but I can see potential and real benefits. Don't condescend it dosen't become you. I have run my own business, I am fully aware of the concept, but if you are looking for unknown unknowns then I cannot help you, which is why I asked the question. Indeed I did attend the second Pheonix conference, out of my own volition. When in the UK I live in Dorset, and as I was visiting my family that week, it seemed sensible to pop along. I am well aware there is disquiet amongst some mebers about the way the party is working, and as such it is sensible, I would have thought to hear it first hand rather than just through the pages of this forum. It was an interesting meeting and not without merit.

30-05-2008, 12:07 PM	#27 (permalink)
Geoffrey Collier Senior Member Join Date: Dec 2007 Posts: 864	BobFM: I think that you are a person more motivated by enthusiasm than reason. Possibly, you become enthusiastic about something for twenty minutes and then move on: no doubt that has been the story of your life. It does appear that your political Pauline conversion to national sovereignty dates from quite recent times. I am not a little Englander, anymore than I am a little European. I support the concept of independent nation states, co-existing in a global world. Those nations states will be manageable as entities, and able to preserve their cultures and all that deemed important to them. Obviously that is not to your liking, but it is sufficient for me. For you, I realise that Swindon is the new modern Rome, it is where all the activity and advanced political thinking is taking place, but other places are making a contribution too: indeed, have been for quite a long time in many constituencies. The original objectives of UKIP, must remain if we are to have a future. Radical changes, such as pan-Europeanism, cannot be imposed upon the party by a few careerists; more interested in self-advancement than political progress. Whatever we may decide in the future, there can only be hope of success, providing the party is sound and honest. Virtually destroying a Cheshire branch, for example, on some ludicrous pretext of showing a CDV, when the real reason was the branche's wish for the election accounts for Wales to be elucidated. Presumably, by contrast, you would prefer to see 'loyalty' enshrined as a substitute for moral courage. Not all would agree with that placebo for the conscience. If you don't like what I write, don't bother either to read my postings or give me advice. 'Reds under the beds', 'little Englanders', 'BNP'; you have no concept of the British tradition of political dissent, and as a consequence you resort to that type of abuse and cliche`in a pathetic attempt to silence those with whom you disagree.

30-05-2008, 07:15 PM	#29 (permalink)
Geoffrey Collier Senior Member Join Date: Dec 2007 Posts: 864	Gwain: Mr Towler, in your second last posting, you claimed that the purpose of the visit was to establish Think Tanks in India. In your last posting you claim that the Think Tanks were already extant. A slight contradiction, therefore, as to the real purpose of the visit. I think that the NEC would be failing in their responsibilities if they did not seek further clarification about this matter. Mr Bloom has frequently brought the party into disrepute in the past. are we to presume that in the land of the mahatma his conduct was impeccable? Should you believe that anything which I say is libellous, you must take any action you feel appropriate.