Telegraph- MEPs to strip Eurosceptics of cash and influence

gawain · 28-05-2008, 03:56 PM

"What has the party gained, for example, by seeing one of our MEP's making a visit to India at public expense".

Evidence please for what I suspect is a libellous allegation.

I went on a trip to India with Godfrey Bloom. It was funded out of HIS pocket. it was to set up a network of Indian academics/think tanks and business people who can be used to endorse the view that Britain as a trading nation would be as good a place to do business as an independent nation than as part of the EU.

To that end we have succeeded, Mr Collier. If you do not think beyond your blinkers then we will never get very far. UKIP, as far as I understand it looks to the whole world rather than just our own borders. Getting independent third party endorsement for our views improves our respectability in the marketplace of ideas.

We all know we are right in our contention that Britain would be better off out of the EU. We just have to convince others of that fact.

Oh and on the substantive issue on what has been going on in the Constitutional Affairs Comittee, can I suggest that you go along here,
England Expects: When federalists fall out

gawain · 28-05-2008, 03:58 PM

Oh yes, and on the back of the India trip today we have had an invitation from the Sikh federation of Britain,
"Also we are looking for a UKIP speaker at our Annual Sikh Convention in Wolverhampton on Sunday 14 September. This is the largest event of its kind attracting around 10,000 Sikhs".

You are right, no value at all.

Geoffrey Collier · 28-05-2008, 04:34 PM

Douglas D: Despite not having any publicity, according to you, we were, nevertheless, able to have elected three MEPs in 1999. Not too bad for an unknown party!. The fact that they had decided to take their seats was largely irrelevant to the result. The electorate wanted to record their disapproval of our engagement in Europe. Our strong point was, that we were untarnished as a party, in terms of reputation. There can be little doubt that many of our MEPs' have served us ill by their conduct, and there is more to come. Why should decent people have their aspirations blighted by such people?

What point is there in making all the same mistakes over and over again? It is those who want to do that, who are really living in the past. We have but a year to change radically; what are you planning which is different for the future DED?

Darren Green · 28-05-2008, 05:16 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Geoffrey Collier

Whatever else may be the subject of disagreement, the predictions of Alan Sked have been fully vindicated. He used to argue that Westminster took us into the EU, and only Westminster can get us out: that is true and undeniable. We have had nearly a decade of UKIP MEP's sitting in the Eu Parliament, and we have nothing to show for it other than publicity to our discredit.

Should we have taken Professor Sked's advice, 'stand for the EU Parliament but do not take our seats', we would be in a much stronger postion to-day.

I couldn't agree more, Geoffrey.

Enoch Powell would never endorse any candidate who was prepared to sit in the European Parliament.

Geoffrey Collier · 28-05-2008, 06:27 PM

Darren Green: What people need to understand, is that it is a contradiction for UKIP MEPs' to agree to sit in an EU Parliamnet. What is our purpose, and how will it be served by sitting in a Parliament in Strasbourg? We have no purpose that can be served by that parliament, and nothing has been achieved for the benefit of the UK over the past decade, but the harm that has been done is manifest for all to see; we now have a leader who insists that we should think Pan-European. This cannot continue without doing irreparable damage to the United Kingdom. We are in the business of serving the interests of this nation, and that is quite a different matter from serving the interests of one's self.

self.

Raymond Finch · 28-05-2008, 08:27 PM

Geoffrey.

You have not responded to Gawains point that the trip was paid for out of the MEPs own pocket.
What made you believe that it was taxpayer funded? Where did you get this information? It is a serious allegation and the very least you should do is either name your sources or apologise.

mrabody · 28-05-2008, 08:46 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Raymond Finch

Geoffrey.

You have not responded to Gawains point that the trip was paid for out of the MEPs own pocket.
What made you believe that it was taxpayer funded? Where did you get this information? It is a serious allegation and the very least you should do is either name your sources or apologise.

Raymond, it should be obvious by now that the nattering negative nabobs that inhabit this forum never apologize for their inaccurate allegations, let alone aknowledge their errors.

Geoffrey Collier · 29-05-2008, 08:26 AM

Raymond Finch: It has not been denied that the cost of this trip by a MEP was paid from
official funding. Gawain merely says that HIS fare was paid personally by Godfrey Bloom:
by implication, no subsequent claim was made. Again, when did I say anything to the contrary? Would Gawain like to name any other person in their company who was with them? As you seem rather concerned about this matter, Raymond, let Gawain give us the full cost and accommodation address occupied on this trip. Not that it is of the slightest interest to me, but it certainly seems a matter of interest to Raymond.

mrabody: I think that you should have a greater regard for truth, than you appear to possess. Would you like to identify that for which I should apologise? The evidence is substantial, that many of those who are routinely maligned on this forum, have been that backbone of the cause for decades. Give first a few years of service to cause yourself, good fellow, and then we will take seriously your opinions.

mrabody · 29-05-2008, 09:27 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Geoffrey Collier

Raymond Finch: It has not been denied that the cost of this trip by a MEP was paid from
official funding. Gawain merely says that HIS fare was paid personally by Godfrey Bloom:
by implication, no subsequent claim was made. Again, when did I say anything to the contrary? Would Gawain like to name any other person in their company who was with them? As you seem rather concerned about this matter, Raymond, let Gawain give us the full cost and accommodation address occupied on this trip. Not that it is of the slightest interest to me, but it certainly seems a matter of interest to Raymond.

mrabody: I think that you should have a greater regard for truth, than you appear to possess. Would you like to identify that for which I should apologise? The evidence is substantial, that many of those who are routinely maligned on this forum, have been that backbone of the cause for decades. Give first a few years of service to cause yourself, good fellow, and then we will take seriously your opinions.

Gawain's statement appears to state that the entire trip was paid for by Godfrey Bloom. No doubt you will be able to parse the meaning of "it" and come to the conclusion that Gawain's statement does not deny that the trip was funded by the European parliament when a plain reading of what he has written suggest that he is denying precisely that.

Geoffrey Collier · 29-05-2008, 11:02 AM

mrabody: From what Gawain has written, we are entitled to assume that the trip was solely for UKIP business purposes. Gawain T. is not allowed to use his EU funded official post for Party work, so funding for him would have to come from elsewhere. This Indian enterprise, because of actual or potential cost to the Party, will be known to the NEC.
No doubt this will be well documented on the relevant Minutes. Presumably, you will be familiar with the precise number in this visiting party and, what costs if any, were met by UKIP.

I welcome your inquisitorial inclinations, and hope that you will be using them to good effect for the Party in all matters financial. You cannot condemn the 'nattering nabobs'
for their endeavours, while lacking the necessary moral fibre yourself.

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28-05-2008, 03:56 PM	#11 (permalink)
gawain Member Join Date: Dec 2005 Posts: 268	"What has the party gained, for example, by seeing one of our MEP's making a visit to India at public expense". Evidence please for what I suspect is a libellous allegation. I went on a trip to India with Godfrey Bloom. It was funded out of HIS pocket. it was to set up a network of Indian academics/think tanks and business people who can be used to endorse the view that Britain as a trading nation would be as good a place to do business as an independent nation than as part of the EU. To that end we have succeeded, Mr Collier. If you do not think beyond your blinkers then we will never get very far. UKIP, as far as I understand it looks to the whole world rather than just our own borders. Getting independent third party endorsement for our views improves our respectability in the marketplace of ideas. We all know we are right in our contention that Britain would be better off out of the EU. We just have to convince others of that fact. Oh and on the substantive issue on what has been going on in the Constitutional Affairs Comittee, can I suggest that you go along here, England Expects: When federalists fall out

28-05-2008, 03:58 PM	#12 (permalink)
gawain Member Join Date: Dec 2005 Posts: 268	Oh yes, and on the back of the India trip today we have had an invitation from the Sikh federation of Britain, "Also we are looking for a UKIP speaker at our Annual Sikh Convention in Wolverhampton on Sunday 14 September. This is the largest event of its kind attracting around 10,000 Sikhs". You are right, no value at all.

28-05-2008, 04:34 PM	#13 (permalink)
Geoffrey Collier Senior Member Join Date: Dec 2007 Posts: 1,006	Douglas D: Despite not having any publicity, according to you, we were, nevertheless, able to have elected three MEPs in 1999. Not too bad for an unknown party!. The fact that they had decided to take their seats was largely irrelevant to the result. The electorate wanted to record their disapproval of our engagement in Europe. Our strong point was, that we were untarnished as a party, in terms of reputation. There can be little doubt that many of our MEPs' have served us ill by their conduct, and there is more to come. Why should decent people have their aspirations blighted by such people? What point is there in making all the same mistakes over and over again? It is those who want to do that, who are really living in the past. We have but a year to change radically; what are you planning which is different for the future DED?

28-05-2008, 06:27 PM	#15 (permalink)
Geoffrey Collier Senior Member Join Date: Dec 2007 Posts: 1,006	Darren Green: What people need to understand, is that it is a contradiction for UKIP MEPs' to agree to sit in an EU Parliamnet. What is our purpose, and how will it be served by sitting in a Parliament in Strasbourg? We have no purpose that can be served by that parliament, and nothing has been achieved for the benefit of the UK over the past decade, but the harm that has been done is manifest for all to see; we now have a leader who insists that we should think Pan-European. This cannot continue without doing irreparable damage to the United Kingdom. We are in the business of serving the interests of this nation, and that is quite a different matter from serving the interests of one's self. self.

28-05-2008, 08:27 PM	#16 (permalink)
Raymond Finch Senior Member Join Date: May 2007 Posts: 515	Geoffrey. You have not responded to Gawains point that the trip was paid for out of the MEPs own pocket. What made you believe that it was taxpayer funded? Where did you get this information? It is a serious allegation and the very least you should do is either name your sources or apologise.

29-05-2008, 08:26 AM	#18 (permalink)
Geoffrey Collier Senior Member Join Date: Dec 2007 Posts: 1,006	Raymond Finch: It has not been denied that the cost of this trip by a MEP was paid from official funding. Gawain merely says that HIS fare was paid personally by Godfrey Bloom: by implication, no subsequent claim was made. Again, when did I say anything to the contrary? Would Gawain like to name any other person in their company who was with them? As you seem rather concerned about this matter, Raymond, let Gawain give us the full cost and accommodation address occupied on this trip. Not that it is of the slightest interest to me, but it certainly seems a matter of interest to Raymond. mrabody: I think that you should have a greater regard for truth, than you appear to possess. Would you like to identify that for which I should apologise? The evidence is substantial, that many of those who are routinely maligned on this forum, have been that backbone of the cause for decades. Give first a few years of service to cause yourself, good fellow, and then we will take seriously your opinions.

29-05-2008, 11:02 AM	#20 (permalink)
Geoffrey Collier Senior Member Join Date: Dec 2007 Posts: 1,006	mrabody: From what Gawain has written, we are entitled to assume that the trip was solely for UKIP business purposes. Gawain T. is not allowed to use his EU funded official post for Party work, so funding for him would have to come from elsewhere. This Indian enterprise, because of actual or potential cost to the Party, will be known to the NEC. No doubt this will be well documented on the relevant Minutes. Presumably, you will be familiar with the precise number in this visiting party and, what costs if any, were met by UKIP. I welcome your inquisitorial inclinations, and hope that you will be using them to good effect for the Party in all matters financial. You cannot condemn the 'nattering nabobs' for their endeavours, while lacking the necessary moral fibre yourself.