UKIP Law and Order Conference: Capital Punishment

NoMoreEUSSR · 29-05-2008, 02:02 PM

Excellent post Geoffrey.

Quote:

Originally Posted by Geoffrey Collier

We should also bear in mind that in the late 18c and early 19c. two hundred offences carried the death penalty;

Had to keep society safe from those Egyptian impersonators!

Quote:

we flogged them, transported them and treated them harshly, but we still had a considerable criminal population.

Which is one reason why I don't think the DP is effective as a deterrent.

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When Thatcher came to power the restoration of capital punishment was high on the agenda. Despite two attempts to have it restored, MPs' rejected it overwhelmingly. Why?

Danger of mistake? Most Western politicians don't want blood on their hands?

While I believe that execution is an acceptable punishment (banishment!) in principle, the principle is worlds apart from actually doing it.

NoMoreEUSSR · 29-05-2008, 02:06 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by ukiplassie

I think that the death penalty should be reintroduced in the UK, our prisons our overcrowded with murderers and rapists, so as a result 'petty' crime i.e burglary and assult get a fine or a community service order. What message is this sending to our youth?

Concur, except to note that the lack of DP is not really the major problem in western legal systems IMO... (it's not only in the UK where vicious thugs get off lightly)

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If life meant life then maybe things could be different, but it only really accounts for 12 years or so if you behave inside!

...but there's the problem right there!

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I think the most 'humane' form of execution is the lethal injection, as it is quick and relatively painless.

Except when the needle misses the vein...

Hartlepool · 29-05-2008, 02:28 PM

The Lethal Injection Mechanism should be installed in each lifers cell for them to use themselves,whenever they wish to.

Real easy solution,no Murder by the State,simply SUICIDE

Geoffrey Collier · 29-05-2008, 02:39 PM

NoMoreEUSSR: Not too sure about politicians not wanting 'blood on their hands, but that is by the way. More relevant, I think, is the contradiction in the reasoning of high profile reformers. Many could be named, but take for example, Ludovic Kennedy, a civilised, well meaning person, I have no doubt. But he opposed C.P. because of the danger of hanging the innocent by mistake. Despite being charged, sent to trial, defended and a final review by the Home Secretary, mistakes nevertheless, he argued, still occurred.
Factually and historically true.

Kennedy, having been on the, 'winning side' in that debate, turned his attention to other matters. He became a leading advocate of euthanasia. The contradiction in his reasoning is glaring. Could not the same medical establishment, which due to human error, amputates the wrong leg; or removes a gall bladder instead of the spleen, give the 'final lethal injection' to the wrong Mrs Smith? Indeed, the number of euthanasia patients will certainly exceed the number of prisoners executed annually. Opponents of C.P. using the, 'we could hang the innocent' argument, could not consistently support euthanasia simultaneously. Never mind, should we legalise euthanasia, it will only be a choice for the first generation, for the subsequent ones it will be re-defined as a moral and social duty. That is the strongest argument, known to me, against that practice.

johnwest · 29-05-2008, 02:49 PM

I should point out that the discussion will be open to the floor. It is not intended to give people the impression that UKIP will restore capital punishment. However, we would hold a referendum on this important issue if enough people requested one.

Geoffrey Collier · 29-05-2008, 02:51 PM

Why is it that you can make typing errors; like ignorant, caning and counselled, yet do not instantly spot them until the 'button is pressed'. Could be age, but I hope not.

johnwest · 29-05-2008, 02:55 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Geoffrey Collier

Why is it that you can make typing errors; like ignorant, caning and counselled, yet do not instantly spot them until the 'button is pressed'. Could be age, but I hope not.

I assume you were referring to another post and not mine.

Geoffrey Collier · 29-05-2008, 03:43 PM

John: Fear not John, I was referring to a previous posting of my own. A computer which appears to be in an advanced stage of Alzheimers; failing eye-sight and a 2x6 visor into
which I have to type, are just a few of the, 'slings and arrows' against which I have to contend. All you have to do is suppress any raucous or uncivilised elements which frequently gravitate towards Law & Order Conferences. There is no mileage in allowing those individuals the lion's share of the time available.

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29-05-2008, 02:28 PM	#13 (permalink)
Hartlepool Uber Member Join Date: Jan 2005 Location: North East England Posts: 6,605 Party: Free England Party	The Lethal Injection Mechanism should be installed in each lifers cell for them to use themselves,whenever they wish to. Real easy solution,no Murder by the State,simply SUICIDE

29-05-2008, 02:39 PM	#14 (permalink)
Geoffrey Collier Senior Member Join Date: Dec 2007 Posts: 864	NoMoreEUSSR: Not too sure about politicians not wanting 'blood on their hands, but that is by the way. More relevant, I think, is the contradiction in the reasoning of high profile reformers. Many could be named, but take for example, Ludovic Kennedy, a civilised, well meaning person, I have no doubt. But he opposed C.P. because of the danger of hanging the innocent by mistake. Despite being charged, sent to trial, defended and a final review by the Home Secretary, mistakes nevertheless, he argued, still occurred. Factually and historically true. Kennedy, having been on the, 'winning side' in that debate, turned his attention to other matters. He became a leading advocate of euthanasia. The contradiction in his reasoning is glaring. Could not the same medical establishment, which due to human error, amputates the wrong leg; or removes a gall bladder instead of the spleen, give the 'final lethal injection' to the wrong Mrs Smith? Indeed, the number of euthanasia patients will certainly exceed the number of prisoners executed annually. Opponents of C.P. using the, 'we could hang the innocent' argument, could not consistently support euthanasia simultaneously. Never mind, should we legalise euthanasia, it will only be a choice for the first generation, for the subsequent ones it will be re-defined as a moral and social duty. That is the strongest argument, known to me, against that practice.

29-05-2008, 02:49 PM	#15 (permalink)
johnwest Senior Member Join Date: Oct 2004 Location: Suffolk Posts: 827 Party: UKIP	I should point out that the discussion will be open to the floor. It is not intended to give people the impression that UKIP will restore capital punishment. However, we would hold a referendum on this important issue if enough people requested one.

29-05-2008, 02:51 PM	#16 (permalink)
Geoffrey Collier Senior Member Join Date: Dec 2007 Posts: 864	Why is it that you can make typing errors; like ignorant, caning and counselled, yet do not instantly spot them until the 'button is pressed'. Could be age, but I hope not.

29-05-2008, 03:43 PM	#18 (permalink)
Geoffrey Collier Senior Member Join Date: Dec 2007 Posts: 864	John: Fear not John, I was referring to a previous posting of my own. A computer which appears to be in an advanced stage of Alzheimers; failing eye-sight and a 2x6 visor into which I have to type, are just a few of the, 'slings and arrows' against which I have to contend. All you have to do is suppress any raucous or uncivilised elements which frequently gravitate towards Law & Order Conferences. There is no mileage in allowing those individuals the lion's share of the time available.