What can UKIP realistically achieve?

Populist Lee · 25-05-2008, 12:23 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Delors of de Jungle

Oh, I love the reasoned debate on this forum. How do you ever expect anyone to take your ideas seriously if that's the best you can manage.

For myself; I came to this forum hoping to find some like minded people who were bothered by the, completely unecessary, transition of the Common market - with which I agreed - to the United States of Europe - with which I don't agree. Instead I've spent 6 months unable to stop reading it out of a horrible fascination with reading the ranting of nutters and the in-fighting between, apparently sensible, people determined to rip their own cause apart.

Though I'm sure we can make you a special case and suspend our differences in order to rip you apart.

douglas denny · 25-05-2008, 12:25 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by T.N.Warry

Here is a question for those interested in UKIPs future to ponder and answer.

" If UKIP through a change of stategy and tactics managed to help bring about the UK leaving the EU and yet had no policies, manifesto and thus no MPs would any one of you, who really wants to leave the EU, mind?

So ask yourself what is more likely in the short term - UKIP employs its forces to help the UK leave the EU or UKIP forms the next government at Westminster?

It's surely a no brainer!

The title says: "What can UKIP realistically achieve?"
- which is a good question.

It also attracted me to give an answer; but I cannot to the psuedo-questions posed because they are nonsensical. The content of the post itself is a no-brainer.

There is little point in trying to answer hypothetical questions about political matters because they are so full of unknown and dynamically shifting parameters.
If "ifs" were horses beggars would ride....

You ask "if" UKIP could achieve the UK leaving the EU but had no policies etc ... (ridiculous assertion to start with ) ... then go on to pose another question as to which is more desirable out of two ideas difficult to comprehend as to their linkage in your mind.

To separate them and answer independently:

"If" UKIP were to form a government at Westminster, then we would be out of the EU anyway - pronto !

There is no "if" however involved in UKIP employing its forces to remove GB from the EU - for that is what we are doing already.

Just what are you driving at Niall? Please keep your questions to single answerable items.
---------------

Regarding the title of this thread: "what can UKIP realistically achieve" the answer is: UKIP is shifting the political equilibrium in a direction against Britain remaining in the EU.

DED.
-

Populist Lee · 25-05-2008, 12:34 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Alex McKee

Far be it for me to speak for The Bear as I am sure he could defend his position more eloquently than I can, however I think The Bear is of the opinion that we need the EU because we are so deeply tied into it and leaving would cause economic and legal difficulties which would distract from the real problem, rampant Islamism.

I feel otherwise, but his position is quite well reasoned.

Alas, in my Worldview people only can be EU-Philes or not EU-Philes.
There is no middle position.

steve fowler · 25-05-2008, 12:35 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Alex McKee

Excellent post. This forum does seem to be going through one of it's worst phases. To be fair to Steve, he usually posts much more mild mannered stuff.

I hope you intend to stick around a while longer. I still labour under the hope that we will get reasoned debate again.

LOL, i think im just going through the same thing as the forum is Alex

.
I will try to stick to proper debating instead of one liner when i can.

Alex McKee · 25-05-2008, 12:46 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by steve fowler

LOL, i think im just going through the same thing as the forum is Alex

.

The forum really gets to you sometimes, doesn't it!

Quote:

Originally Posted by steve fowler

I will try to stick to proper debating instead of one liner when i can.

I will too. We have to try and get the arguments back on track as we can easily win them.

steve fowler · 25-05-2008, 12:54 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Alex McKee

The forum really gets to you sometimes, doesn't it!

I will too. We have to try and get the arguments back on track as we can easily win them.

Im going through panic phase at the mo mate!, im worried that dispite what NF and some others may think that we may lose we our once proud country mate and that Australia maybe the only option i will have left if we dont win on the issue of the EU.

Alex McKee · 25-05-2008, 12:56 AM

We surely will lose the UK if the few people who care strongly about this countries future spend all their time bickering in online forums.

I share your concern. We need to hammer UKIP into shape, or perhaps another political party if UKIP doesn't shape up in the next year or two, and get out there and fight like hell.

Alex McKee · 25-05-2008, 12:58 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Populist Lee

Alas, in my Worldview people only can be EU-Philes or not EU-Philes.
There is no middle position.

That is unfortunate. You need to understand the distinctions & the reasons for those distinctions to be able to properly counter their arguments.

Populist Lee · 25-05-2008, 12:59 AM

You cannot possibly hope to win against the EU with that attitude.

Alex McKee · 25-05-2008, 01:03 AM

I would say the same to you.

Agree to disagree, I think.

25-05-2008, 12:56 AM	#17 (permalink)
Alex McKee Moderator Join Date: Apr 2005 Location: Gloucester Posts: 6,666	We surely will lose the UK if the few people who care strongly about this countries future spend all their time bickering in online forums. I share your concern. We need to hammer UKIP into shape, or perhaps another political party if UKIP doesn't shape up in the next year or two, and get out there and fight like hell. __________________ Anything I post on this web forum is my personal opinion only. Users on Ignore list: None.

25-05-2008, 12:59 AM	#19 (permalink)
Populist Lee Uber Member Join Date: Apr 2006 Posts: 2,411 Party: Other	You cannot possibly hope to win against the EU with that attitude. __________________ ENGLISH POPULISM Stands as the only obstacle in the path of the Plutocrats who seek to reduce all the Peoples of the World to Economic and Political Slavery under Globalism POPULISM MEANS WHAT YOU WANT IS WHAT YOU GET Coming soon to your computer . . . DISSIDENT CONGRESS UK

25-05-2008, 01:03 AM	#20 (permalink)
Alex McKee Moderator Join Date: Apr 2005 Location: Gloucester Posts: 6,666	I would say the same to you. Agree to disagree, I think. __________________ Anything I post on this web forum is my personal opinion only. Users on Ignore list: None.

Thread Tools
Show Printable Version Email this Page
Display Modes
Linear Mode Switch to Hybrid Mode Switch to Threaded Mode