Westcountryman

Would you support Ireland invading Northern Ireland then?

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Manus haec inimica tyrannis ense petit placidam sub libertate quietam - "This hand of mine, which is hostile to tyrants, seeks by the sword quiet peace under liberty."

Aardvark

Bolleaux, The Ossets are culturally, linguistically and ethnically Persian.

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When in Woking do as the Wokes do.

"I do not wish to form my opinions by thoughtlessly quoting others; I wish others to support their opinions by sensibly quoting me." Paul Wesson (Aardvark) 13th April 2008

UKIPSW

Sometimes in life you get what you asked for.

The Georgians poked a big stick into the hornets nest to see if they would get a reaction. They did. They won't make the same mistake again.

Tony Bennett

Aardvark, slightly surprised at your language, you are a Moderator?

Please see this from Kafkas Vakfý

QUOTE

In 1989, in the freedom of glasnost and Perestroika and frightened by rising Georgian nationalism, the South Ossetians demanded unification with North Ossetia. In December the next year, the Georgian Parliament declared that South Ossetia was no longer autonomous and authorized suppression of newspapers and bans on demonstrations.

One issue at stake was the language. Georgian was declared as official language. The Ossetians declared Osetian as the official language of South Ossetia. Fighting commenced in January 1991. During the fighting, South Ossetians were drained of a large part of their population. It is difficult to estimate the number of inhabitants in today's South Ossetia. Most Georgians who lived in the republic left for Georgia proper, and only a few small enclaves in South Ossetia are still inhabited by Georgians

More than 100.000 Ossets fled from Georgia and South Ossetia to North Ossetia. The fighting ended in July 1992 when a cease-fire, at the initiative of Russian President Yeltsin, was agreed and a peacekeeping force of Ossets, Georgians and Russians was set up. The agreement is being observed by the CSCE in Tiflis.

But since then little progress has been made. South Ossetia is in a situation of permanent economic crisis and there is a lack of almost everything including jobs, clothes, food heating and electricity. Schools and universities are closed because of lack of heating and books.

The situation is worsened by Georgia cutting electricity supplies, which has led to North Ossetia running an electric cable from Russia through the mountain range.

The conflict has resulted in increasing South Ossetia claims for a reunification with North Ossetia ***and for a stronger affiliation with the North Caucasian ethnic groups and republics***.

In 1990-91, when the South Ossetia parliament was still dominated by leaders from the Soviet period, the main claim was still to become part of the Russian Federation.

UNQUOTE

The Ossetians closer to the Georgians than they are to the Russians?

I don't think so

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Tony Bennett

Westcountryman asked: "Would you support Ireland invading Northern Ireland then?"

REPLY: Strange question, but let's look at it like this.

Keep in mind Northern Ireland as in a roughly parallel situation to South Ossetia.

Now then, let's replay what has happened in Georgia/South Ossetia where:

Ireland = Georgia

N. Ireland = South Ossetia

Great Britain = Russia.

The rough sequence of events, then, is:

1. Ireland annexes N. Ireland against the wishes of the majority of its population

2. N. Ireland votes 95% for independence from Ireland and declares independence from Ireland

3. Ireland does everything it can to undermine its independence and finally invades N. Ireland on 8 August, genocidally killing about 2,000 N. Irish, and causing tens of thousands of N. Irish to flee to Great Britain.

4. The desperate N. Irish ask Great Britain to help them against Ireland.

5. Great Britain attacks Ireland in order to stop further genocide against the N. Irish.

I hope that's cleared it up O.K.

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gc

I generally agree with much of what you write, and I guess you are also probably correct here.

But were you in Georgia....? I suspect you were.

They don't give a damn about their heritage, their collective memories go back to breakfast time, and the greatest thing they value is a new ipod. Preferably a nicked one, because it is cheaper than one they have to pay for themselves.

They are very hospitable people... no doubt about that, and their women are, shall we say, easy with their favours towards anybody with a non Russian/Georgian accent.

But generally speaking, I would question the sense of allowing Georgia into NATO...

But if you are looking for cheap vodka, duff overcooked pasta, and a dose, then Georgia is the place to be!

gc

And before you ask.... yes I was there, and no I didn't.

Aardvark

No I didn't either. My interpreter was part Osset. I worked in Khaketi, which was an independent kingdom into the very late 18th century.

The Ossets are ethnically Persian, whether they have Russian citizenship or not. The Ossets are a lot closer to the Georgians than to the Slavic Russians.

The politics are complex, I do not disagree, but the south Ossets and north Ossets look to a unified Osset state separate of both Georgia and Russia. Russia will never forgive Georgia for being the first state to secede from the Soviet Union. The Georgians seek to remain within the boundaries of the former Georgian SSR; not an unreasonable position.

There are only 600,000 Ossets in the world. They are largely concentrated in the 2 Ossetias. Not all Ossets in the south are anti-Georgian and the Ossets I interviewed in December/January 2007/8 all spoke Georgian to my interpreter, who spoke some Osset. I worked as a representative of the OSCE and people knew if there was a problem we would report it (the Leki wanted to return to Daghestan and said so).

If you look at the geography/geology the Russians are forced north of the Caucasus range if they lose Abkhazia and South Ossetia (made up country). This is about Russian hegemony in the south Caucasus. It is critical. Armenia looks to Russia as a protector against Turkey and Azerbaijan (Alibayev fights his election on an invade Armenia policy). The Abkhazians. strange to relate, were the people who provided the royal guard under pre-Russian Georgian rule and were most loyal to the Baghrationes (the royal family, now based in the USA).

If Georgia was allowed to be independent within the Georgian SSR boundaries, with regional autonomy for the Ossets and Abkhazi, as in Adjara, then things could settle down.

Those who condemn the Georgians are not aware of the history that has brought us to this situation.

__________________
When in Woking do as the Wokes do.

"I do not wish to form my opinions by thoughtlessly quoting others; I wish others to support their opinions by sensibly quoting me." Paul Wesson (Aardvark) 13th April 2008

Roger Gough

The first sight on my TV when this disaster reached the Western media last week was of the Georgian President telling the world his version of events. Was it a coincidence that the serried ranks of flags behind him consisted of the Georgian national flag (I presume) alternating endlessly with that of the EU. Strange that.