IND DEM: Should we stay or should we go?

T K Hipperdoodly · 09-05-2008, 04:53 PM

If Roger Knapman's consultation shows a majority for leaving Ind Dem, how about the other MEPs letting their members have a say on whether they should leave?

kernow · 09-05-2008, 10:03 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by T K Hipperdoodly

If Roger Knapman's consultation shows a majority for leaving Ind Dem, how about the other MEPs letting their members have a say on whether they should leave?

I agree with your idea 100%!

Independent UKIP · 09-05-2008, 11:52 PM

If there is apparent support for leaving Ind Dem in the South West the entire party membership should be consulted, not just those who have MEPs. Perhaps, and this is just my thinking aloud, in conjunction with next years NEC elections a ballot of party members should be held as to whether it is acceptable for UKIP to be a member of any group in the parliament after next years Euro elections. It is a bit late in the parliamentary cycle to decide to wipe out Ind/Dem in my opinion but everything changes next summer; and if the membership decides it doesn't want to be part of a group that might just be able to be presented as a positive to the electorate next summer without the massively negative publicity which contrary to what Geoffrey Collier thinks to be the case would inevitably result if we left and thus destroyed Ind/Dem between now and then.

That is all assuming we win any seats which considering the posts of some of the people who have joined this forum in recent weeks and who also clearly have personal interests in the matter is by no means certain.

Geoffrey Collier · 10-05-2008, 02:27 PM

Independent UKIP: If what we are told is true, UKIP gave no financial support to Stuart Wheeler's, action to seek a judicial review of the EU Con. and L.T. But UKIP does belong to the IDG which provides financial support, to produce a newspaper intended to advance the interests Jean-Marie Le Pen. I suggest that we remedy our neglect of Mr Wheeler's cause without further ado, and immediately cease our association with the IDG, which supports opinions we do not share, and whose objectives do not benefit the United Kingdom.

You appear not to share this opinion; believing that we should continue our approbation of the IDG's financial support for the extreme wing in French politics for another year.
We should leave without delay, and apologise for ever joining in the IDG in the first place. It will be opinions like yours, that will ensure that we do badly in the 2009 Euro-Elections, and not those opinions intended to remedy undoubted wrongs.

UKIP MEP's are seeking to sight the IDG accounts, which Nigel Farage, apparently, is reluctant to surrender: as far as I know, they still haven't had much luck. Closer to home, we know that accounts remain unexplained year-on-year. Paying Marta Andreasen £3000, each month, we should now have all out-standing questions concerning UKIP Accounts answered. We are being degraded by those who should be protecting the party. We should spend the next few months wisely, and get the party into the best possible shape for 2009. The NEC should demand that is what must be done. If we cannot solve our own problems, we must seek the wise counsel of the statutory authorities. What other option do we have?

charlie endell · 10-05-2008, 06:52 PM

When will we know the results of the consultation in the SW? No surprise - I voted for RK to leave Ind Dem. The revelations of the French Ind Dem MEP supporting fascists vindicates that position, if vindication were needed (my opinion was actually based on financial issues that I am personally aware of).

If the membership opts to stay in, then so be it. I will resign immediately from UKIP, as I cannot be connected to neo-fascists for professional reasons - I am quite open with my colleagues about my UKIP affiliation, but I assume that what has been brought out on this forum will also have been picked up by the press. I will not be, or be seen to be, connected with a party with any link to extremists, be they of the right or the left.

If the membership wants UKIP to leave Ind Dem, then I hope both SW MEPs will respect this decision, and that the leadership will then also act accordingly. I assume a party wide consultation might be in order, or maybe even an executive decision taken to get out straight away. To ignore the membership and do nothing cannot be an option.

If Farage were not to respect the decision of the membership, then his leadership of the party must be called into question, as he personally benefits financially from his position as Ind Dem co-President.

Legin · 10-05-2008, 09:02 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by charlie endell

When will we know the results of the consultation in the SW? No surprise - I voted for RK to leave Ind Dem. The revelations of the French Ind Dem MEP supporting fascists vindicates that position, if vindication were needed (my opinion was actually based on financial issues that I am personally aware of).

If the membership opts to stay in, then so be it. I will resign immediately from UKIP, as I cannot be connected to neo-fascists for professional reasons - I am quite open with my colleagues about my UKIP affiliation, but I assume that what has been brought out on this forum will also have been picked up by the press. I will not be, or be seen to be, connected with a party with any link to extremists, be they of the right or the left.

If the membership wants UKIP to leave Ind Dem, then I hope both SW MEPs will respect this decision, and that the leadership will then also act accordingly. I assume a party wide consultation might be in order, or maybe even an executive decision taken to get out straight away. To ignore the membership and do nothing cannot be an option.

If Farage were not to respect the decision of the membership, then his leadership of the party must be called into question, as he personally benefits financially from his position as Ind Dem co-President.

The great news is that Tom Wise has again led the way and proved beyond all doubt that the Ind/Dem Group are no more than a load of dictators!!

charlie endell · 11-05-2008, 08:36 PM

The Swedish members of Ind Dem were unhappy with Lega Nord, it was at their request that the Italians were expelled from the group (although one Swede, Lars Wolhin, loudly insisted that the Lega were expelled and then promptly defected to the EPP himself!)

The Swedes are furious that the group could not keep a lid on Couteaux's neo-fascist sympathies. Farage won't mind, he described Swedish MEP Helene Goudin as "a tobacco chewing fat lesbian"... He might mind however if she walks and leaves him without his Co-President's salary....

Add them to the list of possible leavers...

charlie endell · 12-05-2008, 06:48 AM

rogerknapmanmep.co.uk

Result Announced
Friday, 09 May 2008

The initial result of a consultation exercise carried out by Roger Knapman MEP has been announced.

A formal count of ballot papers took place at Lexdrum House on Friday 9 May under secure conditions. Each member in the South West had been given a chance to vote on whether or not they felt Roger Knapman should withdraw from the IndDem Group.

The count produced the follwing result:

For Withdrawal 1,967 votes

Against Withdrawal 59 votes

Abstentions

Some minor adjustments are to be made to the figures to take into account a few people who produced valid requests for a change in their vote. A separate tally will be published of late votes which missed the count.

Roger Knapman said: "This is a very heavy vote and an overwhelming indication of opinion.

"I will now be talking to my colleagues again about this issue over the next couple of weeks.

Petrina · 12-05-2008, 09:41 PM

Surely such an overwhelming vote calls for immediate action .The members have spoken.

gimlet · 13-05-2008, 09:27 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Petrina

Surely such an overwhelming vote calls for immediate action .The members have spoken.

I agree - what part of 'withdraw from the Ind Dem group' requires discussion?

View Poll Results: Should UKIP leave the Ind/Dem Group?
Yes	18	51.43%
No	15	42.86%
Don't Know/Care	2	5.71%
Voters: 35. You may not vote on this poll

10-05-2008, 06:52 PM	#15 (permalink)
charlie endell Member Join Date: Oct 2007 Posts: 186	When will we know the results of the consultation in the SW? No surprise - I voted for RK to leave Ind Dem. The revelations of the French Ind Dem MEP supporting fascists vindicates that position, if vindication were needed (my opinion was actually based on financial issues that I am personally aware of). If the membership opts to stay in, then so be it. I will resign immediately from UKIP, as I cannot be connected to neo-fascists for professional reasons - I am quite open with my colleagues about my UKIP affiliation, but I assume that what has been brought out on this forum will also have been picked up by the press. I will not be, or be seen to be, connected with a party with any link to extremists, be they of the right or the left. If the membership wants UKIP to leave Ind Dem, then I hope both SW MEPs will respect this decision, and that the leadership will then also act accordingly. I assume a party wide consultation might be in order, or maybe even an executive decision taken to get out straight away. To ignore the membership and do nothing cannot be an option. If Farage were not to respect the decision of the membership, then his leadership of the party must be called into question, as he personally benefits financially from his position as Ind Dem co-President. Last edited by charlie endell; 10-05-2008 at 06:54 PM.

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09-05-2008, 04:53 PM	#11 (permalink)
T K Hipperdoodly Junior Member Join Date: Feb 2007 Posts: 17	If Roger Knapman's consultation shows a majority for leaving Ind Dem, how about the other MEPs letting their members have a say on whether they should leave?

09-05-2008, 11:52 PM	#13 (permalink)
Independent UKIP Uber Member Join Date: Jul 2005 Location: London Posts: 2,079	If there is apparent support for leaving Ind Dem in the South West the entire party membership should be consulted, not just those who have MEPs. Perhaps, and this is just my thinking aloud, in conjunction with next years NEC elections a ballot of party members should be held as to whether it is acceptable for UKIP to be a member of any group in the parliament after next years Euro elections. It is a bit late in the parliamentary cycle to decide to wipe out Ind/Dem in my opinion but everything changes next summer; and if the membership decides it doesn't want to be part of a group that might just be able to be presented as a positive to the electorate next summer without the massively negative publicity which contrary to what Geoffrey Collier thinks to be the case would inevitably result if we left and thus destroyed Ind/Dem between now and then. That is all assuming we win any seats which considering the posts of some of the people who have joined this forum in recent weeks and who also clearly have personal interests in the matter is by no means certain.

10-05-2008, 02:27 PM	#14 (permalink)
Geoffrey Collier Member Join Date: Dec 2007 Posts: 452	Independent UKIP: If what we are told is true, UKIP gave no financial support to Stuart Wheeler's, action to seek a judicial review of the EU Con. and L.T. But UKIP does belong to the IDG which provides financial support, to produce a newspaper intended to advance the interests Jean-Marie Le Pen. I suggest that we remedy our neglect of Mr Wheeler's cause without further ado, and immediately cease our association with the IDG, which supports opinions we do not share, and whose objectives do not benefit the United Kingdom. You appear not to share this opinion; believing that we should continue our approbation of the IDG's financial support for the extreme wing in French politics for another year. We should leave without delay, and apologise for ever joining in the IDG in the first place. It will be opinions like yours, that will ensure that we do badly in the 2009 Euro-Elections, and not those opinions intended to remedy undoubted wrongs. UKIP MEP's are seeking to sight the IDG accounts, which Nigel Farage, apparently, is reluctant to surrender: as far as I know, they still haven't had much luck. Closer to home, we know that accounts remain unexplained year-on-year. Paying Marta Andreasen £3000, each month, we should now have all out-standing questions concerning UKIP Accounts answered. We are being degraded by those who should be protecting the party. We should spend the next few months wisely, and get the party into the best possible shape for 2009. The NEC should demand that is what must be done. If we cannot solve our own problems, we must seek the wise counsel of the statutory authorities. What other option do we have?

11-05-2008, 08:36 PM	#17 (permalink)
charlie endell Member Join Date: Oct 2007 Posts: 186	The Swedish members of Ind Dem were unhappy with Lega Nord, it was at their request that the Italians were expelled from the group (although one Swede, Lars Wolhin, loudly insisted that the Lega were expelled and then promptly defected to the EPP himself!) The Swedes are furious that the group could not keep a lid on Couteaux's neo-fascist sympathies. Farage won't mind, he described Swedish MEP Helene Goudin as "a tobacco chewing fat lesbian"... He might mind however if she walks and leaves him without his Co-President's salary.... Add them to the list of possible leavers...

12-05-2008, 06:48 AM	#18 (permalink)
charlie endell Member Join Date: Oct 2007 Posts: 186	rogerknapmanmep.co.uk Result Announced Friday, 09 May 2008 The initial result of a consultation exercise carried out by Roger Knapman MEP has been announced. A formal count of ballot papers took place at Lexdrum House on Friday 9 May under secure conditions. Each member in the South West had been given a chance to vote on whether or not they felt Roger Knapman should withdraw from the IndDem Group. The count produced the follwing result: For Withdrawal 1,967 votes Against Withdrawal 59 votes Abstentions Some minor adjustments are to be made to the figures to take into account a few people who produced valid requests for a change in their vote. A separate tally will be published of late votes which missed the count. Roger Knapman said: "This is a very heavy vote and an overwhelming indication of opinion. "I will now be talking to my colleagues again about this issue over the next couple of weeks.

12-05-2008, 09:41 PM	#19 (permalink)
Petrina Senior Member Join Date: Jan 2006 Location: sussex Posts: 877	Surely such an overwhelming vote calls for immediate action .The members have spoken.