Telegraph apologises to Bob Spink

Anthony Butcher · 04-05-2008, 07:39 PM

It would be insane to put an unknown entity like Bob Spink in charge so soon after joining the party IMHO.

charlie endell · 04-05-2008, 08:03 PM

In all honesty, Anthony, I would instinctively agree with your sentiments... But I said the same about Knapman being parachuted in as leader,and all criticism aside, he delivered our result in 2004. Students of politics will study that result in the future, it was a heck of an upset for the political establishment.

I hope that Knapman's contribution not only to UKIP, but to the democratic process in this country, will one day be recognised. People who were so jaded where politics were concerned that they stopped voting, were suddenly enthused, and got out there leafletting, canvassing, and even standing as candidates. UKIP did that, and we should be proud, but remember that it was Knapman who lead us at that time.

But really, the power base needs to shift back to the UK, and what better time than now, when we have a seat in Westminster?

I think we need to move fast, particularly in the light of the Mayday debacle.

Farage is compromised politically and financially. Now is the hour, as the Maoris allegedly sung...

Anthony Butcher · 04-05-2008, 11:59 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by charlie endell

But really, the power base needs to shift back to the UK, and what better time than now, when we have a seat in Westminster?

I agree completely that the empahsis should be on British politics.

Forgive the patronising attitude.... you are displaying a classic UKIP syndrome - things are going badly so you jump on anything that looks like a glimmer of hope. We see it time and again on this forum - the understimulated activists desperately looking for something to cling on to.

Just because Bob Spink is an MP does not necessarily make him a leader. Bearing in mind that he had a major falling out with his own constituency association (or at least sections of it) this doesn't bode well for his people management skills.

Nor did he ever put himself, AFAIK, forward for the Tory leadership. Hence there is no indication that he is hungry for leadership.

A quick search on Google doesn't reveal any indication that he ever made it to the Tory front bench, or any position at all in fact. That doesn't suggest a high flier.

What proven qualities does he have that would make him a better leader than anyone else in UKIP? If it is just the fact that he is an MP for the next year or two, then I would proceed with extreme caution.

None of this suggests that he couldn't make an excellent leader, but nor does it suggest that he would either.

kernow · 05-05-2008, 12:06 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Anthony Butcher

It would be insane to put an unknown entity like Bob Spink in charge so soon after joining the party IMHO.

I agree 100%! One of UKIPs failings in my book is wanting to put people who appear to be a cut above the rest, in senior positions as soon as they come on board. There (my opinion) should be a probation period!

charlie endell · 05-05-2008, 06:09 AM

Still nothing I disagree with....

But how do we shift the power to the UK? Can we now establish an office in Westminster, and transfer some competence (as the EU would say) to that office?

Farage values his co-presidency of Ind Dem more highly than the leadership of UKIP: It gives him extra income, and a great deal of kudos in the EU institutions, which is where he sees his future. Having said that, he exercises a 'Mugabwe'- like grip on power, and I think we will have trouble getting him out.

I make no bones about it, I think he is an awful leader.

I participated in 11 campaigns for UKIP, and gave a lot of cash over the last 10 years. I could not bring myself to campaign for last week's elections as I feel so strongly about Farage's lack of integrity and credibility. I remain a party member in the hope of a leadership change before we get wiped out in 2009, as Farage slips quietly away to join his Tory chums.

Anthony Butcher · 05-05-2008, 11:55 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by charlie endell

But how do we shift the power to the UK? Can we now establish an office in Westminster, and transfer some competence (as the EU would say) to that office?

The problem is that in all likeliness Spink will only be an MP until the next General Election anyway (which is why I fully expect to see his name on the MEP lists).

The London and local election results show that UKIP doesn't have any political momentum and won't be making any subtantial ground in the next GE, as things stand. Thus, unless Spink can bring 10,000+ votes through personal loyalty he will be out and UKIP would be left with a leader without an income.

fordtit · 05-05-2008, 11:59 AM

I hope that the rumours in the East are not true. We now have our first MP and yet some want Spink to run for the Euros! This insane. We need more MPs not more MEPs. Why on earth would we want to lose our only MP to Brussels?

What is the law regarding this. Can an MP also be an MEP? Even if he can how could he do both jobs? We need him in Westminster!

Anthony Butcher · 05-05-2008, 12:07 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by fordtit

I hope that the rumours in the East are not true. We now have our first MP and yet some want Spink to run for the Euros! This insane. We need more MPs not more MEPs. Why on earth would we want to lose our only MP to Brussels?

Take a look at who wants him to run for the MEP list (if this isn't just a rumour). If they are all staff or family members of staff, then that will pretty much confirm that he was offered an MEP seat to join UKIP and the UKIP whispering network is putting the word out.

I would find it very hard to believe that ordinary UKIP activists would support his placement on the MEP list; that is pretty much an admission of defeat in his constituency. As you say, as UKIP's first MP and a very new member of the party, he should be making his fight there, not in Brussels.

Geoffrey Collier · 05-05-2008, 04:22 PM

I strongly counsel, that we do not rush with unnecessary speed, into deciding our future prospective MEPs' list. Many of our branch volunteers, after years of faithful service, have been arbitarily removed from the Counties Committees, and replaced by paid party servants and their spouses & partners, in order that they select the prospective MEP candidates list. E.U. paid servants of MEPs' should not be involved in this process in any capacity whatsoever. Those making the selections, must have no pecuniary interest, in those decision which they make. This is recognised in all other organisations, as being the first defence against corruption.

Furthermore, as there are police inquiries in progress, which concern senior party members, those inquiries should be allowed to be completed first. That would only be fair. Those who are not wholly uninformed about these matters, may be of the opinion that the selection process should be deferred until late Summer or the Autumn.
We should be disinclined to add further chaos to our immediate problems.

04-05-2008, 07:39 PM	#11 (permalink)
Anthony Butcher Administrator Join Date: Sep 2004 Location: Long Ashton, Bristol Posts: 9,537 Party: None	It would be insane to put an unknown entity like Bob Spink in charge so soon after joining the party IMHO. __________________ If you care about what's in your food and where it comes from, then get it labelled! Label My Food - http://www.labelmyfood.org.uk

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04-05-2008, 08:03 PM	#12 (permalink)
charlie endell Member Join Date: Oct 2007 Posts: 246	In all honesty, Anthony, I would instinctively agree with your sentiments... But I said the same about Knapman being parachuted in as leader,and all criticism aside, he delivered our result in 2004. Students of politics will study that result in the future, it was a heck of an upset for the political establishment. I hope that Knapman's contribution not only to UKIP, but to the democratic process in this country, will one day be recognised. People who were so jaded where politics were concerned that they stopped voting, were suddenly enthused, and got out there leafletting, canvassing, and even standing as candidates. UKIP did that, and we should be proud, but remember that it was Knapman who lead us at that time. But really, the power base needs to shift back to the UK, and what better time than now, when we have a seat in Westminster? I think we need to move fast, particularly in the light of the Mayday debacle. Farage is compromised politically and financially. Now is the hour, as the Maoris allegedly sung...

05-05-2008, 06:09 AM	#15 (permalink)
charlie endell Member Join Date: Oct 2007 Posts: 246	Still nothing I disagree with.... But how do we shift the power to the UK? Can we now establish an office in Westminster, and transfer some competence (as the EU would say) to that office? Farage values his co-presidency of Ind Dem more highly than the leadership of UKIP: It gives him extra income, and a great deal of kudos in the EU institutions, which is where he sees his future. Having said that, he exercises a 'Mugabwe'- like grip on power, and I think we will have trouble getting him out. I make no bones about it, I think he is an awful leader. I participated in 11 campaigns for UKIP, and gave a lot of cash over the last 10 years. I could not bring myself to campaign for last week's elections as I feel so strongly about Farage's lack of integrity and credibility. I remain a party member in the hope of a leadership change before we get wiped out in 2009, as Farage slips quietly away to join his Tory chums.

05-05-2008, 11:59 AM	#17 (permalink)
fordtit Member Join Date: Apr 2008 Location: Sunny East Posts: 118	I hope that the rumours in the East are not true. We now have our first MP and yet some want Spink to run for the Euros! This insane. We need more MPs not more MEPs. Why on earth would we want to lose our only MP to Brussels? What is the law regarding this. Can an MP also be an MEP? Even if he can how could he do both jobs? We need him in Westminster!

05-05-2008, 04:22 PM	#19 (permalink)
Geoffrey Collier Senior Member Join Date: Dec 2007 Posts: 706	I strongly counsel, that we do not rush with unnecessary speed, into deciding our future prospective MEPs' list. Many of our branch volunteers, after years of faithful service, have been arbitarily removed from the Counties Committees, and replaced by paid party servants and their spouses & partners, in order that they select the prospective MEP candidates list. E.U. paid servants of MEPs' should not be involved in this process in any capacity whatsoever. Those making the selections, must have no pecuniary interest, in those decision which they make. This is recognised in all other organisations, as being the first defence against corruption. Furthermore, as there are police inquiries in progress, which concern senior party members, those inquiries should be allowed to be completed first. That would only be fair. Those who are not wholly uninformed about these matters, may be of the opinion that the selection process should be deferred until late Summer or the Autumn. We should be disinclined to add further chaos to our immediate problems.