A good London result for UKIP?

mkpdavies · 03-05-2008, 11:01 AM

1. There is no loyalty to Britain in London. The small amount there is fractured between the small parties and the BNP take the small, but at least worthy of a seat and deposit return 5%. That is a combination of racists and desperate to send the most anti message possible.

London has barely anyone who gives a toss about England or Britain left, hence parties that put that up as a selling point, seem to lose votes, rather than gain.

2. UKIP really did balls up with the seats they did win. Everything should have been doen to pull Hockers and Harvey back in, just like Labour did with Red Ken. Sadly the leadership put ego before party and hence UKIP are in the mess they are today. All this bluster about being better off without them is just that. Smaller parties like UKIP need to make the most of their elected positions. Throwing them away and not trying to get them back is unforgivable.

3. The reason I left. UKIP as a full package is just not going to do it in many places. Sure it will flare up in some areas, but places like London will always be impossible to crack as things stand. Now if all the party wants to be is an anti-EU protest vote, then fine. But I have to say, have the Tories been pushed in anyway so far? No. UKIP members even fall back in line and support them when the right boogieman is held up. This strategy has failed and is failing. If you want to change the Tories, I think it will have to be from within. Even then, you are going to have to be devious about it.

4. Stop worrying about crappy little parties. If all the crappy little parites joined together tomorrow, they still would be irrelevant. LibLabCon are the only focus. They are the power holders by a long shot. The rest are simply not worth thinking about.

5. I hate to say this (as I could never be part of such a party), but if you are going to try and fight evil. You are going to have to play them at their own game. The British public clearly like picking liars and cheats. Obviously ones that can hide most of it, but basically people who will just look at an area and tell them what they want to hear.

6. I am at a loss for this final point, but getting the MSM to give some sort of support is required. Do whatever it takes. Kiss up to them. Buy them dinners. Offer to change certain policies to what they want, hell go into their office and ask them what THEY would like UKIP to offer. Do anything basically yo get some sort of reasonable media coverage, rather than the odd spot when the boot gets put in more often than not.

7. Make sure people like me are FAaaaaaar way from the party. You need people who see it as a career, people who are willing to say whatever needs to be said to win power. Someone who doesn't post on open forums (at least not under their real name).

Take the gloves off and play them at their own game. It's the only thing I can think of doing now. The British people lap that sort of thing up. As I said though, that being the case, maybe joining the old lot is the only game left. Don't do a Ron Paul though and blow your cover.

Populist Lee · 03-05-2008, 11:10 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by mkpdavies

Disaster I vote. Couldn't be much worse really.

Locals were better than expected. So overall, neutral.

UKIP need to put their thinking caps on about London. You can't expect to be taken seriously, when you get such crappy results in the capital!

I think the real issue is probably cash. A battle bus just isn't going to cut it on its own.As a matter of urgency, the leadership need to guide the drones into creating revenue streams. That is going to be very hard with the current "brand" I am afraid.

Having said that, UKIP has the EU elections that may provide the springboard. I am sure Farage has some stuff lined up for that.

I haven't voted so as to not rub salt into the wound.

It has to be faced up to by UKIPers that the results are hardly better than the bordering-on-extinction results achieved by the English Democrats.

The trouble for UKIP in next year's EU Elections is going to be the resurgent Tory Party.
UKIP have performed well in the past 10 years on the fact of a Tory Party being flat on its back.

To get three MEPs next year will mean UKIP is back to where it was 10 years ago.
That is not good.

indigo · 03-05-2008, 11:19 AM

To get three MEP's next year would be well on the optimistic side.

Millennium3 · 03-05-2008, 01:08 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by mkpdavies

1. There is no loyalty to Britain in London. The small amount there is fractured between the small parties and the BNP take the small, but at least worthy of a seat and deposit return 5%. That is a combination of racists and desperate to send the most anti message possible.

London has barely anyone who gives a toss about England or Britain left, hence parties that put that up as a selling point, seem to lose votes, rather than gain.

2. UKIP really did balls up with the seats they did win. Everything should have been doen to pull Hockers and Harvey back in, just like Labour did with Red Ken. Sadly the leadership put ego before party and hence UKIP are in the mess they are today. All this bluster about being better off without them is just that. Smaller parties like UKIP need to make the most of their elected positions. Throwing them away and not trying to get them back is unforgivable.

3. The reason I left. UKIP as a full package is just not going to do it in many places. Sure it will flare up in some areas, but places like London will always be impossible to crack as things stand. Now if all the party wants to be is an anti-EU protest vote, then fine. But I have to say, have the Tories been pushed in anyway so far? No. UKIP members even fall back in line and support them when the right boogieman is held up. This strategy has failed and is failing. If you want to change the Tories, I think it will have to be from within. Even then, you are going to have to be devious about it.

4. Stop worrying about crappy little parties. If all the crappy little parites joined together tomorrow, they still would be irrelevant. LibLabCon are the only focus. They are the power holders by a long shot. The rest are simply not worth thinking about.

5. I hate to say this (as I could never be part of such a party), but if you are going to try and fight evil. You are going to have to play them at their own game. The British public clearly like picking liars and cheats. Obviously ones that can hide most of it, but basically people who will just look at an area and tell them what they want to hear.

6. I am at a loss for this final point, but getting the MSM to give some sort of support is required. Do whatever it takes. Kiss up to them. Buy them dinners. Offer to change certain policies to what they want, hell go into their office and ask them what THEY would like UKIP to offer. Do anything basically yo get some sort of reasonable media coverage, rather than the odd spot when the boot gets put in more often than not.

7. Make sure people like me are FAaaaaaar way from the party. You need people who see it as a career, people who are willing to say whatever needs to be said to win power. Someone who doesn't post on open forums (at least not under their real name).

Take the gloves off and play them at their own game. It's the only thing I can think of doing now. The British people lap that sort of thing up. As I said though, that being the case, maybe joining the old lot is the only game left. Don't do a Ron Paul though and blow your cover.

I don't know that there are any/many parties that have integrity
- perhaps it would be a novel approach which might, just might, appeal to the voters. It would be very difficult to dislodge the Tories or Labour, but I would have thought that the Lib/Dems are there for the taking if one of the eurosceptic parties focused on what the voters wanted to a much greater extent than the big three.

John Cooper · 03-05-2008, 06:43 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by mkpdavies

2. UKIP really did balls up with the seats they did win. Everything should have been doen to pull Hockers and Harvey back in, just like Labour did with Red Ken. Sadly the leadership put ego before party and hence UKIP are in the mess they are today. All this bluster about being better off without them is just that. Smaller parties like UKIP need to make the most of their elected positions. Throwing them away and not trying to get them back is unforgivable.

Very true. We really need as many people as possible.
Losing RKS was a bit mistake as we will find out next year.
(BTW I did not want him to be leader).

marcus · 03-05-2008, 07:50 PM

It was a terrible result, absolutely awful. To loose to the Christian peoples alliance and abolish the congestion charge.

prober · 04-05-2008, 01:31 PM

Never fear, next time standing as " ACCA" within an " Independence for Congested Christians Alliance " will guarantee winning Assembly seats.

rjt · 04-05-2008, 01:52 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by marcus

It was a terrible result, absolutely awful. To loose to the Christian peoples alliance and abolish the congestion charge.

One reason that UKIP might have lost to the CPA is that they are quite popular in London with several ouncillors there and thus have a local powerbase to fight from. I am not sure yet that UKIP quite takes local politcs seriously.

zbrahead · 04-05-2008, 01:55 PM

I voted 'Excellent' because it is excellent that such a failure of a party is failing

Andrew Constantine · 04-05-2008, 03:11 PM

I make a simple point please by reference to my recent standing for the London Assembly.

The Free England party was founded only this February.
I have no design skills whatsoever, and hence the party logo I designed is very poor.
My election leaflet was no great shakes either.
I attended no hustings.
My party had no mayoral candidate.
There is not a single non-family party member in this huge South West constituency.
99% of the voters would not have heard of me (or my party) before seeing the names on the ballot paper.

I still got almost 3,000 votes and 1.5% of the votes cast.

Does not my example give a guide to UKIP about why it should re-brand?

If the UKIP mayoral candidate does not consider himself English, why should the English people voting in England's capital city give him the time of day (no matter that he was a solid candidate)?

Let me put it in starker terms. Say Edinburgh or Glasgow takes on the elected office of a mayor.

Would the UKIP mayoral candidate campaign on the basis that he is a non-Scottish candidate ... and one who does not recognise Scotland as a nation?

After June 2009 and if UKIP gets the expected wipe-out of its MEPs, UKIP will have no resources and hence nothing to offer the electorate. The English nationalist parties will stay away as UKIP would then only offer reputational risk to any alliance.

UKIP might then be finished to all intents and purposes.

Time is short if UKIP wishes to re-launch.

View Poll Results: A good result for UKIP in London?
Excellent	2	5.00%
Good	0	0%
Indifferent	3	7.50%
Poor	7	17.50%
Terrible	28	70.00%
Don't Know/Care	0	0%
Voters: 40. You may not vote on this poll

03-05-2008, 11:01 AM	#11 (permalink)
mkpdavies Uber Member Join Date: Sep 2004 Location: Woking Posts: 30,615	1. There is no loyalty to Britain in London. The small amount there is fractured between the small parties and the BNP take the small, but at least worthy of a seat and deposit return 5%. That is a combination of racists and desperate to send the most anti message possible. London has barely anyone who gives a toss about England or Britain left, hence parties that put that up as a selling point, seem to lose votes, rather than gain. 2. UKIP really did balls up with the seats they did win. Everything should have been doen to pull Hockers and Harvey back in, just like Labour did with Red Ken. Sadly the leadership put ego before party and hence UKIP are in the mess they are today. All this bluster about being better off without them is just that. Smaller parties like UKIP need to make the most of their elected positions. Throwing them away and not trying to get them back is unforgivable. 3. The reason I left. UKIP as a full package is just not going to do it in many places. Sure it will flare up in some areas, but places like London will always be impossible to crack as things stand. Now if all the party wants to be is an anti-EU protest vote, then fine. But I have to say, have the Tories been pushed in anyway so far? No. UKIP members even fall back in line and support them when the right boogieman is held up. This strategy has failed and is failing. If you want to change the Tories, I think it will have to be from within. Even then, you are going to have to be devious about it. 4. Stop worrying about crappy little parties. If all the crappy little parites joined together tomorrow, they still would be irrelevant. LibLabCon are the only focus. They are the power holders by a long shot. The rest are simply not worth thinking about. 5. I hate to say this (as I could never be part of such a party), but if you are going to try and fight evil. You are going to have to play them at their own game. The British public clearly like picking liars and cheats. Obviously ones that can hide most of it, but basically people who will just look at an area and tell them what they want to hear. 6. I am at a loss for this final point, but getting the MSM to give some sort of support is required. Do whatever it takes. Kiss up to them. Buy them dinners. Offer to change certain policies to what they want, hell go into their office and ask them what THEY would like UKIP to offer. Do anything basically yo get some sort of reasonable media coverage, rather than the odd spot when the boot gets put in more often than not. 7. Make sure people like me are FAaaaaaar way from the party. You need people who see it as a career, people who are willing to say whatever needs to be said to win power. Someone who doesn't post on open forums (at least not under their real name). Take the gloves off and play them at their own game. It's the only thing I can think of doing now. The British people lap that sort of thing up. As I said though, that being the case, maybe joining the old lot is the only game left. Don't do a Ron Paul though and blow your cover. __________________ http://brits4ronpaul.blogspot.com/ http://wokinglibertarians.blogspot.com/ http://lpuk.org My ignore list Labour, Blue Labour, Lib Dems

04-05-2008, 03:11 PM	#20 (permalink)
Andrew Constantine Senior Member Join Date: Mar 2006 Posts: 819 Party: Free England Party	I'll try again! I make a simple point please by reference to my recent standing for the London Assembly. The Free England party was founded only this February. I have no design skills whatsoever, and hence the party logo I designed is very poor. My election leaflet was no great shakes either. I attended no hustings. My party had no mayoral candidate. There is not a single non-family party member in this huge South West constituency. 99% of the voters would not have heard of me (or my party) before seeing the names on the ballot paper. I still got almost 3,000 votes and 1.5% of the votes cast. Does not my example give a guide to UKIP about why it should re-brand? If the UKIP mayoral candidate does not consider himself English, why should the English people voting in England's capital city give him the time of day (no matter that he was a solid candidate)? Let me put it in starker terms. Say Edinburgh or Glasgow takes on the elected office of a mayor. Would the UKIP mayoral candidate campaign on the basis that he is a non-Scottish candidate ... and one who does not recognise Scotland as a nation? After June 2009 and if UKIP gets the expected wipe-out of its MEPs, UKIP will have no resources and hence nothing to offer the electorate. The English nationalist parties will stay away as UKIP would then only offer reputational risk to any alliance. UKIP might then be finished to all intents and purposes. Time is short if UKIP wishes to re-launch. __________________ Andrew Constantine Free England Party - Independence for England http://www.freeengland.com http://freeengland.blogspot.com Signatory to The English Claim of Right http://englishclaimofright.com

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03-05-2008, 11:19 AM	#13 (permalink)
indigo Junior Member Join Date: Mar 2007 Posts: 20	To get three MEP's next year would be well on the optimistic side.

03-05-2008, 07:50 PM	#16 (permalink)
marcus Member Join Date: Feb 2008 Posts: 191	It was a terrible result, absolutely awful. To loose to the Christian peoples alliance and abolish the congestion charge.

04-05-2008, 01:31 PM	#17 (permalink)
prober Senior Member Join Date: Oct 2005 Posts: 803	Never fear, next time standing as " ACCA" within an " Independence for Congested Christians Alliance " will guarantee winning Assembly seats.

04-05-2008, 01:55 PM	#19 (permalink)
zbrahead Member Join Date: Jan 2007 Location: Grimsby Posts: 191	I voted 'Excellent' because it is excellent that such a failure of a party is failing