Out of date & out of touch!

Geoffrey Collier · 13-05-2008, 08:43 PM

Bob FM: The comment about your grandfather was a facetious one; 'the perfect not being part of this world etc, or exactly what the words were which you used. The national antecedents of your parents and grandparents could hardly be known to me, when I don't even know who you are, or even your surname. No, I have no toleration of any extremist party, that is why I am not happy that a former leader, and other leading personalities in UKIP, were once members of the New Britain Party. Furthermore, as I have said previously, it was unwise that Nigel Farage selected a former N.F. regional organiser as his election agent in the last 2005, GE. Presumably these are the kind of opinions which you deplore, but hold them genuinely.

I suppose we are all ignorant in many matters, but self-serving, in respect of me, would take some justifying I believe. I find it sad that you anger so easily.

Bob FM · 14-05-2008, 08:29 AM

I do not anger easily, I find that those who post accusations with no proof are cowardly. You still have failed to provide any proof of any wrong doing in Ashford, just innuendo. We still await the evidence that Nigel is being investigated by OLAF. I have provided, words from Wise's own mouth about his actions. As for Nigels agent that was before my time in the party, and yes I wouldn't disagree on the face of it he was unwise. However do you not believe people can change after all most of us were 'former something'.

Geoffrey Collier · 14-05-2008, 12:41 PM

Bob FM: The wrong doings in Ashford are not just innuendo. A private company was established and effectively superimposed itself on a call centre engaged in lawful political business. The very existence of that private company was not known to UKIP's General Secretary, and many on the NEC until it became directly under their control. The existence of that company was not known to the Electoral Commission, until late iinto their enquiries concerning impermissible donations.

No business agreement or terms of trade ever existed between the company and UKIP.
There was a well publicised dispute, in the Sunday Times and Sunday Telegraph, concerning how much money was generated by Ashford for the Party. Eleven per cent was mooted by one source, but that was contradicted by David Campbell-Bannerman,
who said the true figure was 15%. What happened to the remainder, should that figure be true? A shopping list was 'rolled off. by Nigel Farage; postage, promotion material,
DVD's and a few other items, and published in the Telegraph. This matter is not closed. We are, I understand returning to court very soon , to settle an outstanding matter. So we will leave it in abeyance. I certainly believe that people can change, but it usually follows contrition.

You will live to see the day when all of these matter are the subject of deliberations in other places. Have confidence, the UK bureaucracies work slowly, but like, 'old man river it gets there just the same'.

Bob FM · 15-05-2008, 08:02 AM

The basic premise of British law is innocent until PROVEN guilty. you seem to prefere trial by media.

Geoffrey Collier · 15-05-2008, 08:47 AM

Bob FM: There is a presumption of innocence until proven guilty. We presume it, but we are not able to confer it.

I don't prefer trial by media, that is why these matters are best decided in court. The practice of private companies, surreptitiously co-existing with political fund-raising activities is totally wrong in principle, even if it it scrupulously managed. When Nigel Farage complains, that we have not been regulated sufficiently by the statutory bodies
in the past, why not support those who agree with him and want a full investigation?

What kind of membership do you want, those who are indifferent to irregular practices,
or those who are not? When we solicit money from members and supporters, from Lands End to John O'Groats, we must be confident that those monies raised are correctly managed. On numerous occasions that has not been the case. UKIP has been blighted by the actuality and suspicion of financial wrong-doing for many years. This is what needs to change and that is what is going to changed.

Legin · 15-05-2008, 12:28 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Bob FM

The basic premise of British law is innocent until PROVEN guilty. you seem to prefere trial by media.

HERE, HERE, as they say in Westminster!!

Geoffrey Collier · 15-05-2008, 01:45 PM

Legin: Is that intended to be a pun on, Hear, Hear,? To obscure for an attribution of meaning.

Legin · 15-05-2008, 01:54 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Geoffrey Collier

Legin: Is that intended to be a pun on, Hear, Hear,? To obscure for an attribution of meaning.

No, here, here as opposed to there there!!

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13-05-2008, 08:43 PM	#151 (permalink)
Geoffrey Collier Senior Member Join Date: Dec 2007 Posts: 651	Bob FM: The comment about your grandfather was a facetious one; 'the perfect not being part of this world etc, or exactly what the words were which you used. The national antecedents of your parents and grandparents could hardly be known to me, when I don't even know who you are, or even your surname. No, I have no toleration of any extremist party, that is why I am not happy that a former leader, and other leading personalities in UKIP, were once members of the New Britain Party. Furthermore, as I have said previously, it was unwise that Nigel Farage selected a former N.F. regional organiser as his election agent in the last 2005, GE. Presumably these are the kind of opinions which you deplore, but hold them genuinely. I suppose we are all ignorant in many matters, but self-serving, in respect of me, would take some justifying I believe. I find it sad that you anger so easily.

14-05-2008, 08:29 AM	#152 (permalink)
Bob FM Senior Member Join Date: Mar 2008 Location: South Marston Swindon Posts: 540	I do not anger easily, I find that those who post accusations with no proof are cowardly. You still have failed to provide any proof of any wrong doing in Ashford, just innuendo. We still await the evidence that Nigel is being investigated by OLAF. I have provided, words from Wise's own mouth about his actions. As for Nigels agent that was before my time in the party, and yes I wouldn't disagree on the face of it he was unwise. However do you not believe people can change after all most of us were 'former something'.

14-05-2008, 12:41 PM	#153 (permalink)
Geoffrey Collier Senior Member Join Date: Dec 2007 Posts: 651	Bob FM: The wrong doings in Ashford are not just innuendo. A private company was established and effectively superimposed itself on a call centre engaged in lawful political business. The very existence of that private company was not known to UKIP's General Secretary, and many on the NEC until it became directly under their control. The existence of that company was not known to the Electoral Commission, until late iinto their enquiries concerning impermissible donations. No business agreement or terms of trade ever existed between the company and UKIP. There was a well publicised dispute, in the Sunday Times and Sunday Telegraph, concerning how much money was generated by Ashford for the Party. Eleven per cent was mooted by one source, but that was contradicted by David Campbell-Bannerman, who said the true figure was 15%. What happened to the remainder, should that figure be true? A shopping list was 'rolled off. by Nigel Farage; postage, promotion material, DVD's and a few other items, and published in the Telegraph. This matter is not closed. We are, I understand returning to court very soon , to settle an outstanding matter. So we will leave it in abeyance. I certainly believe that people can change, but it usually follows contrition. You will live to see the day when all of these matter are the subject of deliberations in other places. Have confidence, the UK bureaucracies work slowly, but like, 'old man river it gets there just the same'.

15-05-2008, 08:02 AM	#154 (permalink)
Bob FM Senior Member Join Date: Mar 2008 Location: South Marston Swindon Posts: 540	The basic premise of British law is innocent until PROVEN guilty. you seem to prefere trial by media.

15-05-2008, 08:47 AM	#155 (permalink)
Geoffrey Collier Senior Member Join Date: Dec 2007 Posts: 651	Bob FM: There is a presumption of innocence until proven guilty. We presume it, but we are not able to confer it. I don't prefer trial by media, that is why these matters are best decided in court. The practice of private companies, surreptitiously co-existing with political fund-raising activities is totally wrong in principle, even if it it scrupulously managed. When Nigel Farage complains, that we have not been regulated sufficiently by the statutory bodies in the past, why not support those who agree with him and want a full investigation? What kind of membership do you want, those who are indifferent to irregular practices, or those who are not? When we solicit money from members and supporters, from Lands End to John O'Groats, we must be confident that those monies raised are correctly managed. On numerous occasions that has not been the case. UKIP has been blighted by the actuality and suspicion of financial wrong-doing for many years. This is what needs to change and that is what is going to changed.

15-05-2008, 01:45 PM	#157 (permalink)
Geoffrey Collier Senior Member Join Date: Dec 2007 Posts: 651	Legin: Is that intended to be a pun on, Hear, Hear,? To obscure for an attribution of meaning.