Bob FM

And frankly GC, I would rather you leave, as people like you do not give the party a chance to develop. If it's not the party you joined, join another one. I do not need a lecture on Parliamentary Democracy, the concept from the intellectual elite is the reason Parliamentary Democracy is such an oxymoron, there is none, which is why the will of the people should be the determining factor, and just in case you missed this.

Tom Wise MEP: A Statement
Sunday, 11 May 2008

In March 2007, UK Independence Party MEPs voted to withdraw the whip from Tom Wise following allegations that he had been misusing parliamentary allowances. Since that time he has not been a UK Independence Party MEP, despite his claims to the contrary.

Mr Wise had not informed the party of actions which were being taken against him and this was considered a severe breach of trust.

Under the rules of the party he was banned from holding any office or seeking candidature. He is sitting as an Independent MEP.

Nigel Farage MEP
Leader of the UK Independence Party I have emailed Wise to ask why he purports to be and still uses a UKIP website. Will be interesting to see what he says. Probably like you, with your posts, he will choose to ignore the democratic process that suspended him.

Geoffrey Collier

Bob FM: You clearly need lectures on Parliamentary Democracy, from any source competent to give it; for you are wholly ignorant of the subject.

The claim that Tom Wise had not informed the party of actions being taken against him,
must be close to sick humour. Only last month, Wise spoke at the London Swinton Circle,
as their main speaker. He spoke as a UKIP MEP, who, allegedly had been cleared of all
all charges by both OLAF and Bedfordshire Police. Both of those claims are false, but he was, 'well received' by many senior UKIP members present.

Are we to assume that Nigel Farage will be banned from all offices and seeking a prospective candidature, while OLAF/EU investigations against him remain inchoate?
I was taught that only example, can be the moral basis for discipline.

It has never been members like me who, '.. do not give the party a chance to develop'.
Our problem has always been corruption at the top, in all its many form and manifestations. While people like you, have been prepared to defend the indefensible, and excuse the inexcusable. That has been UKIP's misfortune.

Bob FM

GC, repeating lies often enough will never make it true. Just because Wise appeared aa a UKIP MEP doesn't make it true as Nigel's release says. As for Nigel being investigated by OLAF another lie. Remember all MEP's with the exception of UKIP voted to keep the OLAF investigation secret. UKIP voted for it to be made public. Lets hope those responsible for conduct read these threads. Then perhaps we can have another UKIP former member still claiming to be a member of the party. By the way I much prefer to be part of the 40 or so million who believe MP's are there to serve us, rather than part of the Political Elite who believe democracy is there to be abused.
Democracy is the system of rule by the people. I think the dictionaries have it.

Aardvark

As I understand it, Nigel is being investigated by OLAF, although for what we do not know. An investigation can of course clear someone of wrongdoing and often the innocent welcome proper investigations that vindicate their position. I understand that NF has acknowledged the investigation, but might be wrong. Likewise NF denies his son was employed by him.

__________________
When in Woking do as the Wokes do.

"I do not wish to form my opinions by thoughtlessly quoting others; I wish others to support their opinions by sensibly quoting me." Paul Wesson (Aardvark) 13th April 2008

Geoffrey Collier

Bob FM: I thought that UKIP was formed to preserve our historic constitution, i.e. a representative parliamentary democracy; which has served us well over the centuries. Your 'dictionary democracy' has also been tried on numerous occasions; sadly they all came to grief within a very short historical time-scale. Philosophically, Britain has traditionally subscribed to the empiricist school of thought; knowledge and ideas supported by observation and experience. Again, you do not seem to share a system which has served us well. You are not some confused Libertarian, are you? We don't want them as candidates.

UKIP, and certain party senior members, are the subject of numerous investigations.
The police are involved as are various national and EU bureaucracies and agencies.
The veracity of these claims will be made apparent within a very short time. I have never made a claim which has subsequently proved incorrect, and will be case again on this occasion. What quality-contacts have you, which enables you to dismiss as 'lies' anything which you do not like? The future of this party, will depend on whether the leadership has the moral fibre to change. Many have doubts as to their ability to make those changes.

Bob FM

Why would they wish to change. You spout hot air, no substance, have had Tom on the phone claiming he is innocent. My simple suggestion to him so prove it. He apparently has documentary proof, but his legal counsel says it cannot be used, sub-judicey, complete **** as I told him. He hasn't been charged it is outside that scope, so let him copy paste his proof here. I certainly won't be holding my breath. Hey GC, no comment then on the fact there is no OLAF enquiry into NG, just relying on someone else. Blimey: The veracity of these claims will be made apparent within a very short time. I have never made a claim which has subsequently proved incorrect I think my grandfather would have said he who is perfect is not for this world.

devilskitchen

Ummm... Not exactly. The roundworms that dogs carry, and are excreted in faeces, can lead to blindness in children (or, indeed, anyone) but it is not the "dog mess" (what a very coy phrase that is) itself that does the damage. Most dogs these days are given regular worming treatments. As such, the dog mess -- whilst unpleasant -- is unlikely to prove overly dangerous.

In which case, Tom, I am sure that you will be happy to provide links to the reports containing the "overwhelming" evidence of long-term damage caused by passive smoking? And, in the interests of balance, I am sure that you would like to provide links to the (far greater number of) reports that show that "passive smoking" does no statistically significant harm.

That is not to say, I would point out, that I don't think that passive smoking may well cause harm after repeated exposure over long periods of time in inadequately ventilated premises, but I do dislike it when people say that there is "overwhelming evidence" and then don't actually provide any of it.

I am pretty sure that my appreciation of scientific reports is rather better than Master Wise's and, besides, I'm certainly not going to take a crooked ex-cop's word for anything.

__________________
Unio Europaea delenda est

Bob FM

Shocking revelations from inside the EU | News | News of the World

The video evidence is damming. But it seems that the Tories are at it also.

Geoffrey Collier

Bob FM: Who exactly is NG? If that is a mistake and you intended to write NF; he is being investiogated by the EU authorities. That will become apparent, even to the least among us very soon. Should you be able to find a statement on this site, which was posted by me, and subseqently proven incorrect, let me know, and I will apologise without delay. How is your grandfather these days, 'hail and hearty' I trust!

Bob FM

It is no wonder the party has failed to attract people if you are the quality of the senior people GC. Perhaps you would like to explain your reference to my grandfather, he never purported to be perfect, is that a BNP type slur because my father and grandfather were Spanish. If that was the case then you are clearly in the wrong party. Both by the way are dead. My father having served Britain in WW11, something he didn't have to do. You are clearly a total ignorant, self serving individual.