Time to leave Ind-Dem?

Star · 07-04-2008, 05:26 PM

Is Roger Knapman right? Should our MEPs leave the Ind-Dem group?

T K Hipperdoodly · 07-04-2008, 06:48 PM

Yes - definitely.

gimlet · 07-04-2008, 07:06 PM

A big YES.

Anthony Butcher · 07-04-2008, 07:22 PM

I say 'no', overall. While obviously there are issues with being a member, there are always going to be compromises to be made. Whatever oddities the group brings with it, these are never exposed in the UK. As long as UKIP's own stance doesn't change, I can't see that it matters a great deal what groups it is associated with in the EU.

On the other hand, although I am not privy to the finances, being in the group gives UKIP access to substantially more resources. For instance, those No Remote Control videos wouldn't have appeared, and Farage's Let The People Decide campaign (abysmal though it was) couldn't have happened either, I suspect, without the group membership.

charlie endell · 07-04-2008, 07:47 PM

When Jim Allister took over Paisley's seat, it was a condition that he sit outside any group. This is because it is easier for a non-alligned member to use his monies for domestic projects.

The main advantages of being in a group are that the President gets a lot of prestige inside the EU Institutions, and he earns more personally.

Independent UKIP · 07-04-2008, 11:49 PM

No.

Just one of the reasons is that it would be used by the opponents of UKIP to 'prove' that UKIP is a 'little englander' party; they would really love that and the voters would not be impressed in my opinion. How many who voted UKIP in 2004 have ever heard of Ind/Dem? but an isolationist UKIP would be a nice stick which the media would beat us with. Their current attempts don't stand up whilst we are in Ind/Dem.

harryaldridge · 08-04-2008, 10:12 AM

No, we must stay in the Ind/Dem group.

1. We get funds to help our cause
2. It is proof that it is not just Britain who is Eurosceptic
3. Helps counter the 'little englander' barbs since we can show we are working positively with our European friends
4. It gives us more speaking time, which wile fairly irrelevant, does allow us to make our points publicly and on record.

charlie endell · 08-04-2008, 10:46 AM

[quote=harryaldridge;484394]It gives us more speaking time, QUOTE]

Roger Helmer told me that he gets more speaking time, and on the subjects he chooses, since he left the EPP.

Dan Hannan told me that leaving the EPP was like "being released from prison".

Petrina · 08-04-2008, 12:18 PM

Isn`t this argument likely to become academic fairly shortly ?

When the rule changes come in re group numbers the I and D Group and other small groups will become a thing of the past -hence Jens-Bonde slipping off to see what he can do with another route to building a pan -European Party perhaps?

what are UKIP planning to do ? Anyone know?

Legin · 08-04-2008, 12:32 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Star

Is Roger Knapman right? Should our MEPs leave the Ind-Dem group?

Makes you wonder what the sudden panic is all about, are there any investigations going on??

07-04-2008, 05:26 PM	#1 (permalink)
Star Junior Member Join Date: Mar 2008 Location: Beds Posts: 87	Time to leave Ind-Dem? Is Roger Knapman right? Should our MEPs leave the Ind-Dem group?

07-04-2008, 07:22 PM	#4 (permalink)
Anthony Butcher Administrator Join Date: Sep 2004 Location: Long Ashton, Bristol Posts: 10,315 Party: None	I say 'no', overall. While obviously there are issues with being a member, there are always going to be compromises to be made. Whatever oddities the group brings with it, these are never exposed in the UK. As long as UKIP's own stance doesn't change, I can't see that it matters a great deal what groups it is associated with in the EU. On the other hand, although I am not privy to the finances, being in the group gives UKIP access to substantially more resources. For instance, those No Remote Control videos wouldn't have appeared, and Farage's Let The People Decide campaign (abysmal though it was) couldn't have happened either, I suspect, without the group membership. __________________ If you care about what's in your food and where it comes from, then get it labelled! Label My Food - http://www.labelmyfood.org.uk

08-04-2008, 10:12 AM	#7 (permalink)
harryaldridge Senior Member Join Date: Oct 2005 Location: West Sussex Posts: 1,912	No, we must stay in the Ind/Dem group. 1. We get funds to help our cause 2. It is proof that it is not just Britain who is Eurosceptic 3. Helps counter the 'little englander' barbs since we can show we are working positively with our European friends 4. It gives us more speaking time, which wile fairly irrelevant, does allow us to make our points publicly and on record. __________________ http://vindicovindico.blogspot.com

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07-04-2008, 06:48 PM	#2 (permalink)
T K Hipperdoodly Junior Member Join Date: Feb 2007 Posts: 23	Yes - definitely.

07-04-2008, 07:06 PM	#3 (permalink)
gimlet Senior Member Join Date: Oct 2004 Location: Shropshire Posts: 839	A big YES.

07-04-2008, 07:47 PM	#5 (permalink)
charlie endell Member Join Date: Oct 2007 Posts: 249	When Jim Allister took over Paisley's seat, it was a condition that he sit outside any group. This is because it is easier for a non-alligned member to use his monies for domestic projects. The main advantages of being in a group are that the President gets a lot of prestige inside the EU Institutions, and he earns more personally.

07-04-2008, 11:49 PM	#6 (permalink)
Independent UKIP Uber Member Join Date: Jul 2005 Location: London Posts: 2,492	No. Just one of the reasons is that it would be used by the opponents of UKIP to 'prove' that UKIP is a 'little englander' party; they would really love that and the voters would not be impressed in my opinion. How many who voted UKIP in 2004 have ever heard of Ind/Dem? but an isolationist UKIP would be a nice stick which the media would beat us with. Their current attempts don't stand up whilst we are in Ind/Dem.

08-04-2008, 10:46 AM	#8 (permalink)
charlie endell Member Join Date: Oct 2007 Posts: 249	[quote=harryaldridge;484394]It gives us more speaking time, QUOTE] Roger Helmer told me that he gets more speaking time, and on the subjects he chooses, since he left the EPP. Dan Hannan told me that leaving the EPP was like "being released from prison".

08-04-2008, 12:18 PM	#9 (permalink)
Petrina Senior Member Join Date: Jan 2006 Location: sussex Posts: 1,062	Isn`t this argument likely to become academic fairly shortly ? When the rule changes come in re group numbers the I and D Group and other small groups will become a thing of the past -hence Jens-Bonde slipping off to see what he can do with another route to building a pan -European Party perhaps? what are UKIP planning to do ? Anyone know?