Time to leave Ind-Dem?

Aardvark · 11-04-2008, 10:59 PM

Quote:

and I'm the only one you should be listening to anyway with anything worthwhile to say ....(!!?)

It's the way you tell them Douglas, it's the way you tell them!

chikrodah · 11-04-2008, 11:11 PM

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Originally Posted by mrabody

The bile and anger should be directed at the other parties, not our own kind. Sorry, but it's too depressing watching all the infighting between people who are supposedly on the same side. I'm sorry, but if you support independence from the EU then gloating at difficulties faced by the leadership of UKIP isn't a productive way to achieve your goal. Better to keep you mouth shut and outwait them. Remember if you don't hang together, you'll hang seperately.

As for the W word - if it wasn't too exotic and offensive for my 50 or 60 year old rugby coaches to bellow at us on the rugby pitch many years ago, it should fit in just fine on a forum where I am told bile and anger are to be expected.

Anyways this is my final post on this matter, and on the forum.

That's exactly what I and others have been saying for some time now. I'm not enamoured by the persistent in-fighting that UKIP members indulge in. I'm sick to the back teeth of watching UKIP senior members (often prompted by those who have ostensibly left, but like manipulating what techies would term as real-life sock-puppiets) indulging in spats that split the party still further. I've got to the point where I've no interest in being a member of a party that encourages misogynism, racist attitudes and the cult of the personality in its branches whilst claiming the opposite in its policies.

My problem is, I have few alternatives. UKIP is happy in the main with being a pressure group. Parts want to be a political party aimed at Westminster, some see the point in being a Euro-focused party. Few have the perspective that you can't get out of the EU without using the EU's legislation against it.

Don't give up, mrabody. We need your perspective and your passion.

mrabody · 12-04-2008, 09:22 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by douglas denny

These statements are hypocritical. Do I mind? No. It is all part of the cut and thrust of this medium.

Don't worry to much Mr A body; I don't mind your outburst - I've heard much worse in the 'Volunteers' Portsmouth (Geoffrey knows all about this - he loves the place).

I have to take exception to the suggestion though of attacking others in an 'intemperate and embarassing manner'. Well for my part I can say hand on heart, as in G&S 'Pinnafore' - Never! .....Well hardly ever!

You might be upset perhaps of my poking fun at good old Geoffrey. But we are chums, I assure you. Poking fun at him is par for the course - everyone does it. He loves it, he likes the attention.

The best way of looking at/using this medium is as a big laugh. Anything worthwhile/useful that comes along in changing your perspective or political world view is to be considered a bonus.

Now don't go running off in a huff 'cos everyone is being nasty to you. I'm not being nasty to you am I? .... and I'm the only one you should be listening to anyway with anything worthwhile to say ....(!!?)
CSteam knows that: He says so!

Regards,
Douglas.

Oh, dear, I guess my original post was a little too cryptic for you all. I don't mind people being insulting occasionally, or intemperate from time to time, but you all keep at it day in and day out and in the most tedious way. And worst, your attentions are directed at each other. Listening to Mark and Anthony parse through messages from years ago in a "did to... did not" argument is tedious and frankly makes them both appear small. You may think it is fun winding up Geoffrey Collier but have you ever stopped to think that by doing so you make him more susceptible to being wound up and just confirm his view of the leadership of the party? And have you ever thought about how it appears to others who may be somewhat disillusioned with the party? You are on the NEC and therefore have a leadership position. Your aggression towards other forum members just confirms the prejudices of many that the NEC contains just two types of people - boneless wonders and Nigel's pets.

As for Charlie Endell I make no apologies for what I said. I've looked at his/her/its posts and see a steady trade in rumours or innuendo. I expect you, and Mark and Anthony, and Geoffrey for that matter to behave better because I believe you all in your own way want the party to work and grow, and I think your behaviour on this forum works counter to those goals. Endell has given no indication in 106 posts that he/she/it wishes other than ill for UKIP. The Charlie Endells and Stars on this forum are nothing but trolls and I fail to see how it can be hypocritical to treat them as such yet expect better of others who are clearly, despite their faults not trolls but presumably want UKIP to succeed.

As for people being nasty, I could care less, and it's certainly not the reason for me leaving. I'm just tired of the petty squabbles. In any event I've got more productive things to do right now like print several thousand local election leaflets for myself and others and a campaign to run. I'll check back in after 1st of May and compare our local election results with all of yours. I'm sure you'll at least get Geoffrey's vote though.

Drew

Richard Allen · 12-04-2008, 06:38 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by mrabody

Oh, dear, I guess my original post was a little too cryptic for you all. I don't mind people being insulting occasionally, or intemperate from time to time, but you all keep at it day in and day out and in the most tedious way. And worst, your attentions are directed at each other. Listening to Mark and Anthony parse through messages from years ago in a "did to... did not" argument is tedious and frankly makes them both appear small. You may think it is fun winding up Geoffrey Collier but have you ever stopped to think that by doing so you make him more susceptible to being wound up and just confirm his view of the leadership of the party? And have you ever thought about how it appears to others who may be somewhat disillusioned with the party? You are on the NEC and therefore have a leadership position. Your aggression towards other forum members just confirms the prejudices of many that the NEC contains just two types of people - boneless wonders and Nigel's pets.

As for Charlie Endell I make no apologies for what I said. I've looked at his/her/its posts and see a steady trade in rumours or innuendo. I expect you, and Mark and Anthony, and Geoffrey for that matter to behave better because I believe you all in your own way want the party to work and grow, and I think your behaviour on this forum works counter to those goals. Endell has given no indication in 106 posts that he/she/it wishes other than ill for UKIP. The Charlie Endells and Stars on this forum are nothing but trolls and I fail to see how it can be hypocritical to treat them as such yet expect better of others who are clearly, despite their faults not trolls but presumably want UKIP to succeed.

As for people being nasty, I could care less, and it's certainly not the reason for me leaving. I'm just tired of the petty squabbles. In any event I've got more productive things to do right now like print several thousand local election leaflets for myself and others and a campaign to run. I'll check back in after 1st of May and compare our local election results with all of yours. I'm sure you'll at least get Geoffrey's vote though.

Drew

For what it is worth I agree with almost everything above. There are times when reading so much of what is posted on this forum really gets we down and leaves me wondering if there is any point bothering with UKIP. How is, given the greatness of our cause, that so many intelligent and talented people could waste so much energy on such pitiful bickering?

Geoffrey Collier · 12-04-2008, 08:45 PM

Richard Allen: A week or two ago you asked me a question about HoL majorites- remember? I replied at length, but it got 'lost' in the system somehow. As General Mac Arthur said, on another occasion; 'I will return', when I can 'rescue', what I said?

mrabodyI hope that you don't think that I engage in rumour-mongering. I may give opinions with which other members disagree; and may be wrong. That is the nature of opinions. When, however, I give information of pending events, albeit often in a brief and coded form, they will be true. In UKIP, not a starling falls to earth, without the political implications being known to me. Warnings offer a chance to change our ways; to reflect on habits and practices; to start a new. I feel that mine are valuable contributions to an on-going debate.

I agree, that I am temperamentally more of a critic than a, 'cheer leader'.
But remember the critics are the assessors, the analysts, the evaluators. Nothing wrong with that. I dislike those who engage in obscenities, impolite reference and impatience. Premise, evidence and conclusion doesn't feature much in contemporary discourse: syllogistic reasoning they used to call it.

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12-04-2008, 08:45 PM	#65 (permalink)
Geoffrey Collier Senior Member Join Date: Dec 2007 Posts: 1,006	Richard Allen: A week or two ago you asked me a question about HoL majorites- remember? I replied at length, but it got 'lost' in the system somehow. As General Mac Arthur said, on another occasion; 'I will return', when I can 'rescue', what I said? mrabodyI hope that you don't think that I engage in rumour-mongering. I may give opinions with which other members disagree; and may be wrong. That is the nature of opinions. When, however, I give information of pending events, albeit often in a brief and coded form, they will be true. In UKIP, not a starling falls to earth, without the political implications being known to me. Warnings offer a chance to change our ways; to reflect on habits and practices; to start a new. I feel that mine are valuable contributions to an on-going debate. I agree, that I am temperamentally more of a critic than a, 'cheer leader'. But remember the critics are the assessors, the analysts, the evaluators. Nothing wrong with that. I dislike those who engage in obscenities, impolite reference and impatience. Premise, evidence and conclusion doesn't feature much in contemporary discourse: syllogistic reasoning they used to call it.