Farage and UKIP, 18 months on.

Anthony Butcher · 30-03-2008, 04:35 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by kernow

I couldn't agree more!

So you don't disagree with anything in the pros and cons then, you just don't want it written down?

Anthony Butcher · 30-03-2008, 04:37 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by SponPlague

... and a new Branch Website Style Content guide for webmasters, just launched, with a coherent overall web policy forming, and a committee to oversee it:
This will help us professionalise our image!

We can put this into the next six month review when it is actually up and running and being used. It will be interesting to see whether you manage to enforce it; I don't envy you that job

Millennium3 · 30-03-2008, 04:45 PM

My view, as a non renewing member, is that the LT offered a genuine chance to make our relationship with the EU a key issue with the voters at the next GE - and still is. NF has not seized this opportunity by offering a post ratification referendum at the next GE. This should have been declared immediately the HofC passed the Treaty and should have been the key policy ever since - leaflets stating this to be the case should be delivered to every home in Britain with as many follow ups as possible.

A small party needs a long run in if it is to make a difference, if a snap election is called, there will not be enough time for UKIP to make its position absolutely clear to the voters and why. Even if it did not lead to seats at Westminster, since it is clear that there is a desire by the electorate for a referendum - this policy would certainly increase UKIP's poll rating and is likely to have pushed the Tories into offering one if they want to form the next government.

Until the LT came into focus, I did not really doubt that NF's true wish was to get us out of Europe. However, I believe that the Bromley and Chislehurst bye election was a critical point for him. He threw all the resources UKIP had at his attempt to win and when he got only 8% he decided that UKIP were not going to win Westminster seats, on the basis that if he could not win then no one else could. NF is extremely egotistical, but more damaging is he has little patience, he is a stuntman, whilst changing our relationship with Europe needs for UKIP to play the long-game.

It was this event, I believe, that changed him from a conviction politician to a career politician. However, died in the wool UKIP supporters, although troubled, cannot bring themselves to accept this truth even when it is abundantly clear that NF's next objective is to win as many seats at the worthless EU Parliament because the public are disappointed there was no referendum, rather than battle the progress of the LT every step of the way.

I don't really care too much about UKIP, but I don't want Britain to become a province of a, German dominated, Europe and if this is to be prevented - UKIP needs to play its part in full.

Anthony Butcher · 30-03-2008, 04:57 PM

One more pro that I forgot to include, and this isn't insignificant - UKIP is still debt free, unlike the big three parties. It is an enviable financial position.

I have edited this into the list.

SponPlague · 30-03-2008, 05:29 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Eurosceptic Atlanticist

Never heard of it. How comes UKIP Cornwall has received no such thing?

It was only sent out to branch chairmen late last week. If your chairman receives email bulletins from HQ, he'll have heard of it that way, too...

However, you have an Alex McKee website, and he is co-author...

C_steam · 30-03-2008, 05:41 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by stathan

You're a very bitter man Anthony!

You've left.... now leave the hard work to us who remain.

You'll worry yourself into an early grave if you carry on your little vendetta in this fashion forever.

Relax...Chill out....Take a holiday ....and let those who remain in the party deal with UKIP party matters!

Stathan. Are you prepared to produce your own analysis and publish it here?

SponPlague · 30-03-2008, 05:44 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Anthony Butcher

We can put this into the next six month review when it is actually up and running and being used. It will be interesting to see whether you manage to enforce it; I don't envy you that job

It is up and running, but it is a transitional stage to better things.

Roland · 30-03-2008, 08:42 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by kernow

I think you're absolutely right on this one!

People forget what a complicated game politics is. The most unfortunate thing is to get into power means a lot of double deals, slight of hand and being a bit flexible with what your true aim is. Unfortunately the end result of that is politicians often start out with good intentions then by the time they've manipulated their way to the top forget what it was they set out to do.

NF is in a great position as long as he's a little diplomatic he's in a good position to speak openly with out fearing the loss of votes. I think people are starting to get cold feet over the EU and that includes those with in the media and thats why he's getting that extra bit of attention.

Parties like UKIP will not win the next election how ever they are a powerful voice and they do not have the complicated political restraints of the conservative party who are on the verge of winning the next election which I believe stop them openly stating their opposition to the EU.

Millennium3 · 30-03-2008, 08:51 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Roland

People forget what a complicated game politics is. The most unfortunate thing is to get into power means a lot of double deals, slight of hand and being a bit flexible with what your true aim is. Unfortunately the end result of that is politicians often start out with good intentions then by the time they've manipulated their way to the top forget what it was they set out to do.

NF is in a great position as long as he's a little diplomatic he's in a good position to speak openly with out fearing the loss of votes. I think people are starting to get cold feet over the EU and that includes those with in the media and thats why he's getting that extra bit of attention.

Parties like UKIP will not win the next election how ever they are a powerful voice and they do not have the complicated political restraints of the conservative party who are on the verge of winning the next election which I believe stop them openly stating their opposition to the EU.

An interesting thought - either that, or, as in the past, they are heavily in favour, but don't admit that because of the votes they would lose! History favours the latter.

SponPlague · 30-03-2008, 08:54 PM

Don't forget they're planning to change the voting system - which may produce unexpected results...

30-03-2008, 04:45 PM	#13 (permalink)
Millennium3 Moderator Join Date: Nov 2005 Location: Berkshire Posts: 3,682	My view, as a non renewing member, is that the LT offered a genuine chance to make our relationship with the EU a key issue with the voters at the next GE - and still is. NF has not seized this opportunity by offering a post ratification referendum at the next GE. This should have been declared immediately the HofC passed the Treaty and should have been the key policy ever since - leaflets stating this to be the case should be delivered to every home in Britain with as many follow ups as possible. A small party needs a long run in if it is to make a difference, if a snap election is called, there will not be enough time for UKIP to make its position absolutely clear to the voters and why. Even if it did not lead to seats at Westminster, since it is clear that there is a desire by the electorate for a referendum - this policy would certainly increase UKIP's poll rating and is likely to have pushed the Tories into offering one if they want to form the next government. Until the LT came into focus, I did not really doubt that NF's true wish was to get us out of Europe. However, I believe that the Bromley and Chislehurst bye election was a critical point for him. He threw all the resources UKIP had at his attempt to win and when he got only 8% he decided that UKIP were not going to win Westminster seats, on the basis that if he could not win then no one else could. NF is extremely egotistical, but more damaging is he has little patience, he is a stuntman, whilst changing our relationship with Europe needs for UKIP to play the long-game. It was this event, I believe, that changed him from a conviction politician to a career politician. However, died in the wool UKIP supporters, although troubled, cannot bring themselves to accept this truth even when it is abundantly clear that NF's next objective is to win as many seats at the worthless EU Parliament because the public are disappointed there was no referendum, rather than battle the progress of the LT every step of the way. I don't really care too much about UKIP, but I don't want Britain to become a province of a, German dominated, Europe and if this is to be prevented - UKIP needs to play its part in full. Last edited by Millennium3; 30-03-2008 at 04:48 PM.

30-03-2008, 04:57 PM	#14 (permalink)
Anthony Butcher Administrator Join Date: Sep 2004 Location: Long Ashton, Bristol Posts: 9,414 Party: None	One more pro that I forgot to include, and this isn't insignificant - UKIP is still debt free, unlike the big three parties. It is an enviable financial position. I have edited this into the list. __________________ If you care about what's in your food and where it comes from, then get it labelled! Label My Food - http://www.labelmyfood.org.uk

Thread Tools
Show Printable Version Email this Page
Display Modes
Linear Mode Switch to Hybrid Mode Switch to Threaded Mode

30-03-2008, 08:54 PM	#20 (permalink)
SponPlague Senior Member Join Date: Aug 2005 Location: Zurich Posts: 1,610	Don't forget they're planning to change the voting system - which may produce unexpected results...