Alex McKee

I know - I wrote mine then posted it after I left the computer for a few minutes and when I posted it, you'd written and posted yours.

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kernow

That's a bit of a silly statement to make by a person who wishes to get elected onto the NEC! UKIP could do nothing! Political party's are only allowed to vote in Westminster when they have Westminster MPs!!!! UKIP have been handing out leaflets for months on the subject and several of us have been writing to our MPs urging them to vote for a Referendum! So don't blame UKIP for the vote being lost, blame the "***** hawks" who put "gravy train "before Country!

charlie endell

Things have moved on. One eurocent of 'UKIP' money, and the main backers will pull out.

Britannist

A list of Labour and Liberal 'Democrat' MPs who voted in the Commons on 5.3.2008 for an EU 'Amending' Treaty referendum can be found here:

EU Treaty referendum vote in Commons: list of Labour/Lib 'Dem.' MPs who backed Tories

Britannist

Charlie - do you have a source/link please to verify the following claim which you made please in posting number 11 to this thread:

I asked you the above question in posting number 13 to this thread but have had no response from you.

Firefly

I don't think it's fair to condem the Tories on this one. I think they made a very strong arguement yesterday for if nothing else, keeping the promises made to the people. A far stronger arguement then the other side but hey David Milliband doesn't seem the cleverest of blokes! I for one will remember who, from all parties, voted yes today. Those who did not or who abstained I hope they all lose their seats in 2010.

Petrina

I note what Charlie Endell has stated re the Irish situation .It accords in essence with what the CIB found out .

We have had meetings with some of the main protagonists for the No vote over there and we were told " thank you for your concern but don`t come over,leave it to us on our home territory". The question which I would like to pose is this;
have UKIP asked the Irish what is best to do ?

Is it really wise to openly boast of passing money to them ? Do they want Ukippers bashing on their doors with their English accents?
This is serious folks you have to get it right .Just because UKIP did b..... all against the Treaty here doesn`t give it a carte blanche to try and regain it`s street cred and get openly involved in the Emerald Isle .

Geoffrey Collier

Kernow & Firefly: It is not a silly statement, but a historical fact that the Conservatives took us unto Europe. In a very particular way, we can identify
the Stckholm Agreement of 1959. (EFTA) It continued with the European Act 1973, the Single European Act, and the Treaty of Maastricht. The latter, you may recall, made us EU citizens. That Treaty could have been defeated
if the, 'Maastricht Rebels' had not 'paired' with opponents, abstained, gone abroad, diplomatic illness, and the employment of other devices. With a few honourable exceptions, that Treaty could have been defeated, should have been defeated and the circumstances today would have been entirely different. The Maastricht Treaty is a permanent monument, to those pusillanimous 'rebels' in the Tory Party. Not to distrust the Conservatives on the question of Europe, would be an offence against reason. All three major political parties, now support the admission of Turkey into the EU. Do you see our freedom from the EU, coming via Ankra?

Of course I am pleased that many have seen the error of their ways. My argument is, that UKIP, by identifying too closely with Conservative in our demand for a referendum, alienanted ourselves from too many other political groupings in Parliament, who could have provided us with those few extra votes which would have been vital for success. Having rejected my strategy, what would have been yours, given the totality of the circumstances?

Firefly: I am not condemning the Tories 'on this one', but they didn't vote as they did for UKIP's benefit. We needed a strategy capable of providing us with a majority. I pose to you my same question as to Kernow. Butler said, 'politics is the art of the possible', did we do all that was possible? No, in my opinion.

eublues

There were some good speeches by a few 'eurosceptic' Tories yesterday, but virtually all of them continue with the dangerous fantasy that the EU can be reformed and we should remain locked into it.

Firefly

I agree and I don't think it's a silly statement at all. Though I think a few have pointed out as did the conservatives yesterday, the vote for joining the EEC in 1975 was a far removed vote from what has happened since. The people voted then on something they believed to be entirely different and how we got to the present state without involving a vote of the people is a complete mystery. Would the vote have passed if the question had been 'Would you like to give up sovereignty to the EU?' Of course not! Not then and not now. Even if it was what those we have put in office thinks is best for us. Maybe the conservatives have woken up, I can only hope so. It is MY hope, politicians being what they are, that the conservatives have seen what the people want and the best way to get them into a majority is to go with the will of the people. And it is my hope that they will promise an in our out referendum in their manifesto for 2010. I could be dreaming but hey I like to dream and hope isn't such a bad thing. I think what happened yesterday, will only grow the populations discontent against the Labour party, the current government and the EU in general. It does not bode well for a government, ours or someone else's to try to deceive the British people and be they in agreement or no with the EU I think people will pull together more on this one.