United Kingdom Independence party accused of diverting EU allowances

Anthony Butcher · 24-02-2008, 05:08 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by stathan

You are wrong..simple as that..don't bother with the apology it means nothing.

I have since checked and confirmed it 100%.

If you think that I am wrong, who employs the RO for Wales? It certainly isn't UKIP.

chikrodah · 24-02-2008, 05:13 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Barboo

Note, though, that this one isn't just Foggo. The article is also attributed to Steven Swinford. I wonder what his input was?

Interesting point. Swinford was nominated as Newcomer of the Year in 2005 for his work on the Western Daily Press. He's obviously keen, judging by the number of articles listed on various news websites. Having said that, he's also fallen foul of others who feel he's misrepresented facts. Councillor Phil Taylor, for example. Phil Taylor » Blog Archive » Sunday Times lays into the Congestion Charge

Quote:

It is good to see the mainstream media trying to give a balanced view on the charge although it is frustrating that the journalist, Steven Swinford, has got some of the numbers wrong and missed out others. It is doubly frustrating as he called me twice to get the inside story on the charge. Sometimes I wonder how journalists’ minds work. Why do they so often get stories wrong?

and

Quote:

That’s the Mayor done up like a kipper then. Shame Swinford couldn’t do the job properly.

Richard Dawkins for another: RichardDawkins.net Forum • View topic - Godless Dawkins challenges schools ?

Quote:

Readers might be forgiven for supposing that Steven Swinford interviewed me before publishing the article in the Sunday Times which prompted this thread. He did not. On 16th November, he e-mailed me as follows:-

Dear Richard,

I was browsing through your website recently and came across the Richard Dawkins Foundation for Reason and Science. It sounds like a great idea, and one we could do a news piece on for the weekend's paper. Could you give me a call . . . ? I'd appreciate the chance to discuss it further.

Many thanks,

Steven Swinford

Sunday Times

The lawyer acting for us in our application for charitable status warned me to say nothing that might jeopardize that application. She suggested that I should simply confirm to Steven Swinford that we have an application in the pipeline and therefore I could not discuss the details. I did exactly that in a brief e-mail to Swinford. Lulled by his Ã¢â‚¬Å“It sounds like a great idea . . .Ã¢â‚¬Â my tone towards him was friendly, and I added that IÃ¢â‚¬â„¢d be happy to talk to him AFTER we had charitable recognition. He did not reply to me, but instead published the article which is the subject of this thread.

SwinfordÃ¢â‚¬â„¢s article is loosely based upon the Mission Statement on the RDF website (RichardDawkins.net/foundation,ourMission) but Ã¢â‚¬ËœlooselyÃ¢â‚¬â„¢ doesnÃ¢â‚¬â„¢t do justice to SwinfordÃ¢â‚¬â„¢s wanton distortion, always in the direction of provocation. And the provocation worked handily. He was predictably successful in provoking from the Dean of Westminster, my colleague Steven Rose and others exactly the kind of reaction that a certain type of journalist is paid to provoke.

BTW, the gobbledygook isn't mine, it's on Dawkin's site. Still, you get the feeling Dawkins is annoyed. No doubt there are others.

Here's a thought. An ambitious young journalist gets hold of a breaking story, maybe an email, maybe one of GLW's famous press releases. He digs through old cuttings. Foggo's name comes up. The chance of a shared byline is better than no byline at all. Foggo's previous articles form the basis of the young journo's 'research'. With hours to go to submit the story, he cuts corners, is liberal with his interpretation of events. He eschews accuracy for provocative distortion. He misrepresents telephone conversations with the provider(s) of the original nugget of information. All in keeping with some of his previous articles.

How much of that article is actually Foggo's newly researched work? How much is Swinford's?

Aardvark · 24-02-2008, 05:14 PM

MikeUK, if it is true it is not actionable.

Libel in the UK is something that tends to lower someone in the eyes of right thinking people. The defence of truth always wins. The defence of fair comment is also pretty good. Publishing an untruth without checking your facts is journalistic suicide.

If the article is not true, to any extent, then the person libelled has to start with a solicitor's letter outlining the case and demonstrating that he can support an action for libel. I don't trust anyone in this world and always keep any references to time and place in my life where it is relevant (I still have records of car park tickets from years ago). I am sure that NF has a contract for services/employment for his wife like the one Dennis Brookes had with Nattrass, I have with Ashley Mote and gc, gawain and bellatrix have with their MEPs or group. The EU keeps copies of all contracts of employment or services.

Foggo talks with lots of people, not just GLW, and I suspect the sources for this item are more reliable than GLW who is long detached from UKIP. Is he still alive? He was not well last time he 'phoned me, unsolicited I hasten to add. I've spoken to Foggo and he won't publish anything where he hasn't got paper or a taped interview to back him up.

The best bet is to let the Gorbals Mick thing take its course whilst UKIP tidies up loose ends; if NF is libelled then he must sue or get a correction.

stathan · 24-02-2008, 05:20 PM

There is no full time RO for Wales.

Anthony Butcher · 24-02-2008, 05:23 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by stathan

There is no full time RO for Wales.

Who pays for the part time RO for Wales? I note that you completely dodged the question.

Or are you just saying that because they changed the name to 'political advisor'?

And there certainly used to be a full time RO paid for by Roger Knapman, so any investigation will focus on that.

Can you categorically deny that Roger Knapman pays for any staff members based in Wales?

mkpdavies · 24-02-2008, 05:26 PM

So there is a part time one then.

Weak.

Anthony Butcher · 24-02-2008, 05:34 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Barboo

Nigel Farage is quoted saying: "There is not a single grain of truth in the statement that I am employing my son using EU allowances or in any other capacity". He does not say that he hasn't employed Sam in that way in the past.

His statement also doesn't cover the possibility that his son was hired within the IDG group, rather than directly by Farage. That would also, technically, allow him to validly claim that he personally isn't hiring his son. Again of course, most people would see this denial as a deliberate deception.

stathan · 24-02-2008, 05:34 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Anthony Butcher

Who pays for the part time RO for Wales? I note that you completely dodged the question.

Or are you just saying that because they changed the name to 'political advisor'?

And there certainly used to be a full time RO paid for by Roger Knapman, so any investigation will focus on that.

Can you categorically deny that Roger Knapman pays for any staff members based in Wales?

As far as I am aware there is no part time RO for Wales, if you come up with a name please let me know as I could use all the help that I can get here.

As regards Roger Knapman, I have never met or spoken to the guy and have no interest who he does or doesn't employ.

You implied that there is is a paid RO for Wales, there isn't, I don't intend to repeat myself again.

I understand that both yourself and MKP Davies no longer belong to UKIP so now you have the facts mind your own business and leave party matters to party members, you don't really have any mandate to be demanding answers off anyone!

Anthony Butcher · 24-02-2008, 05:39 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by stathan

As far as I am aware there is no part time RO for Wales, if you come up with a name please let me know as I could use all the help that I can get here.

UKIP Wales
John Bufton is listed as the Political Coordinator for Wales. This is the new name for the Regional Organiser (indeed he was previously listed as the RO for Wales). Are you saying that John Bufton doesn't receive a salary?

stathan · 24-02-2008, 05:43 PM

I understand that John Bufton works in the South West.

If you wish to know anymore rejoin the party and ask your own questions to those who feel obliged to answer to another party member.

24-02-2008, 05:14 PM	#73 (permalink)
Aardvark Moderator Join Date: Dec 2004 Location: Oxonia Posts: 3,928	MikeUK, if it is true it is not actionable. Libel in the UK is something that tends to lower someone in the eyes of right thinking people. The defence of truth always wins. The defence of fair comment is also pretty good. Publishing an untruth without checking your facts is journalistic suicide. If the article is not true, to any extent, then the person libelled has to start with a solicitor's letter outlining the case and demonstrating that he can support an action for libel. I don't trust anyone in this world and always keep any references to time and place in my life where it is relevant (I still have records of car park tickets from years ago). I am sure that NF has a contract for services/employment for his wife like the one Dennis Brookes had with Nattrass, I have with Ashley Mote and gc, gawain and bellatrix have with their MEPs or group. The EU keeps copies of all contracts of employment or services. Foggo talks with lots of people, not just GLW, and I suspect the sources for this item are more reliable than GLW who is long detached from UKIP. Is he still alive? He was not well last time he 'phoned me, unsolicited I hasten to add. I've spoken to Foggo and he won't publish anything where he hasn't got paper or a taped interview to back him up. The best bet is to let the Gorbals Mick thing take its course whilst UKIP tidies up loose ends; if NF is libelled then he must sue or get a correction. __________________ When in Woking do as the Wokes do. "I do not wish to form my opinions by thoughtlessly quoting others; I wish others to support their opinions by sensibly quoting me." Paul Wesson (Aardvark) 13th April 2008

24-02-2008, 05:26 PM	#76 (permalink)
mkpdavies Uber Member Join Date: Sep 2004 Location: Woking Posts: 30,814	So there is a part time one then. Weak. __________________ http://brits4ronpaul.blogspot.com/ http://wokinglibertarians.blogspot.com/ http://lpuk.org My ignore list Labour, Blue Labour, Lib Dems

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24-02-2008, 05:20 PM	#74 (permalink)
stathan Member Join Date: Feb 2007 Posts: 414	There is no full time RO for Wales.

24-02-2008, 05:43 PM	#80 (permalink)
stathan Member Join Date: Feb 2007 Posts: 414	I understand that John Bufton works in the South West. If you wish to know anymore rejoin the party and ask your own questions to those who feel obliged to answer to another party member.