United Kingdom Independence party accused of diverting EU allowances

Anthony Butcher · 24-02-2008, 01:25 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Mark Croucher

Whatever....

Have you reverted to being a teenager?

That's it? That's your detailed explanation of why everything in the article is "untrue"? Unbelievable.

Look, if there is actually something untrue in there then tell us what it is. Nothing good for the anti-EU movement can come of this story. Conway was destroyed by the same kind of thing, so this is a potentially monumental issue not just for UKIP but for euroscepticism.

BASILDON BOY · 24-02-2008, 01:46 AM

Untrue or not - damage done - always to the run up to elections - gives UKIPs opponents another stick to beat UKIP with!

Anthony Butcher · 24-02-2008, 01:57 AM

I thought that it was worth filtering the story down to the core 'allegations':

1. Nigel Farage’s 19-year-old son Sam is being paid to work for his MEP father through his European Union expenses allowance, despite being a politics student at Exeter University.

2. Farage also employs his wife Kirsten as a £24,000-a-year secretary using public funds.

3. He is being investigated by Olaf, the EU’s antifraud watchdog.

4. Olaf has been alerted to UKIP’s use of allowances meant for funding MEPs’ assistants to pay the salaries of party workers.

5. However, leaked e-mails reveal that Farage and his colleagues have failed to provide the EU with requested information about how it gives its regional organisers in Britain jobs as MEPs’ assistants so that their salaries can be paid from public funds.

6. Koen Snijders, who works for the EU’s general finance directorate, said the UKIP leader and his MEPs’ accountant, Robin Collett, had “promised to produce evidence regarding this expenditure” four months earlier but none had materialised.

Anthony Butcher · 24-02-2008, 02:17 AM

Boiling this down, there appears to be a single point of contention for Farage - whether his wife and son do the work they are paid to do (if his son is indeed employed), remembering of course that hiring them isn't illegal. If they do, then really it is just a matter of whether voters and party members approve of nepotism and the political judgment this shows. The article doesn't suggest that either of them isn't doing the work they are paid for, nor does it provide his son's salary. Obviously the direct comparison to Conway is intended to suggest that, but without knowing whether his son receives a full time salary it is impossible to judge much about this.

It's not a great vote winner, and however much Farage may claim it is necessary/convenient for him to hire his wife and son (if that is the case), this issue is going to get dragged up continuously by his opponents and he will never be able to criticise the gravy train again with any credibility, if he does in fact employ his son as well.

The other major issue, covered many times here, is the issue of Regional Organisers. It could potentially be argued, as in the Denis Brookes case, that they do indeed act full time as political advisors. The sticking point, as I mentioned before, will be the two ROs who work in unrelated regions (as far as I am aware). It is going to be hard to provide any evidence that a Welsh RO provides any geniune non-party work for Roger Knapman, IMHO.

More often than not, these things tend to blow over and what seem like massive scandals turn out to be rather less interesting once light has been shone on them.

I have tried to provide a balanced analysis of the situation; does anyone disagree with any of it?

Anthony Butcher · 24-02-2008, 02:38 AM

I just remembered this article from October last year:
Iain Dale's Diary: EXCLUSIVE: UKIP Leader's Son Joins Cameron's Conservatives

Quote:

I hear on the grapevine that Conservative Future at Exeter University have a new member, who has a high profile father. Daddy won't be amused though, for he's none other than UKIP leader Nigel Farage. Obviously son Sam is none too impressed by UKIP's offerings and has fallen under the spell of Dave. Sensible lad.

Millennium3 · 24-02-2008, 05:02 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Anthony Butcher

Boiling this down, there appears to be a single point of contention for Farage - whether his wife and son do the work they are paid to do (if his son is indeed employed), remembering of course that hiring them isn't illegal. If they do, then really it is just a matter of whether voters and party members approve of nepotism and the political judgment this shows. The article doesn't suggest that either of them isn't doing the work they are paid for, nor does it provide his son's salary. Obviously the direct comparison to Conway is intended to suggest that, but without knowing whether his son receives a full time salary it is impossible to judge much about this.

It's not a great vote winner, and however much Farage may claim it is necessary/convenient for him to hire his wife and son (if that is the case), this issue is going to get dragged up continuously by his opponents and he will never be able to criticise the gravy train again with any credibility, if he does in fact employ his son as well.

The other major issue, covered many times here, is the issue of Regional Organisers. It could potentially be argued, as in the Denis Brookes case, that they do indeed act full time as political advisors. The sticking point, as I mentioned before, will be the two ROs who work in unrelated regions (as far as I am aware). It is going to be hard to provide any evidence that a Welsh RO provides any geniune non-party work for Roger Knapman, IMHO.

More often than not, these things tend to blow over and what seem like massive scandals turn out to be rather less interesting once light has been shone on them.

I have tried to provide a balanced analysis of the situation; does anyone disagree with any of it?

I don't think UKIP would be harmed politically for using RO's to do party work.

He can get away with employing his wife with just a whiff of scandal.

It all turns on how much he is paying his son - if it was for one minor research paper £100 okay - if it was a substantial amount, his credibility disappears given his attacks on the EU 'gravy train'. In the latter case he would need to resign to salvage any of UKIP's remaining integrity [which would not be much] but he won't.

prober · 24-02-2008, 08:37 AM

Let us be clear. It is the duty of UKIP MEPs to exploit the EU gravy train to milk funds to the full TO BE USED AGAINST THE SYSTEM & GET US OUT.

Any funds used for personal benefit is £ take away from the members who got MEPs elected and £ pocketed which is desperately needed to employ dedicated quality staff for publications, branch building etc etc .

Any employment of relatives must be totally transparent above board and because they are best for the job and approved by the NEC or other independent panel, to prevent corruption.

Is this the same son who is a member of the Conservative Club at college ?

What is the phone No and email address and job description of the wife being employed ? Has anyone had dealings with her ? What has she achieved for UKIP ? etc etc.

Already members are leaving because of UKIP's decision not to fight for a referendum . Whats the 2009 slogan ? "Members contribute your £ so UKIP can get 20 MEPs, 20 wives and 20 sons on the payroll" ? THis could knock the heart out of activists left.

There is a massive case to answer. NIgel better do so quickly & openly . Firmly squash anything untrue, & fully justify what is true.

mkpdavies · 24-02-2008, 08:55 AM

Sounds like the bits about him paying his son and being under investigation are untrue.

Foggio may have just let his obsession with UKIP go a bit to far this time. I can't see him not being sued for this.

Bluemerle · 24-02-2008, 10:01 AM

So, are we to take it that NF's son has joined the Conservatives at Uni but is being paid to help UKIP by Daddy. Ehh?

Tony Bennett · 24-02-2008, 10:12 AM

It may be worth bearing in mind that one of Daniel Foggo's key sources re UKIP is his close mate Greg Lance-Watkins.

Yes, they are mates.

Yes, they cook up anti-UKIP stories together.

If Nigel Farage does not either sue for libel re his son, or at the very minimum file an immediate claim with the Press Complaints Commission, then Mark Croucher is wrong.

Four reasons not to vote UKIP in the 2009 Euro elections:

1. Ashley Mote: Benefit fraudster locked up for falsely claiming nearly £100,000 Housing Benefit from Chichester District Council - and used the hated E.U. institutions to try and win immunity from prosecution in the British courts

2. Robert Kilroy-Silk - left UKIP after a few months, never seen in the East Midlands, and doesn't actively campaign for Britain to leave the E.U.

3. Tom Wise - irregularities re false claims for money paid to researchers and Peugeot car bought on E.U. staff allowance, currently under investigation by OLAF

4. Nigel Farage - pays wife and son at Exeter University from E.U. staff allowances, currently under investigation by OLAF (allegedly)

-------------------------------------------------------------------------------

24-02-2008, 01:57 AM	#33 (permalink)
Anthony Butcher Administrator Join Date: Sep 2004 Location: Long Ashton, Bristol Posts: 9,538 Party: None	I thought that it was worth filtering the story down to the core 'allegations': 1. Nigel Farage’s 19-year-old son Sam is being paid to work for his MEP father through his European Union expenses allowance, despite being a politics student at Exeter University. 2. Farage also employs his wife Kirsten as a £24,000-a-year secretary using public funds. 3. He is being investigated by Olaf, the EU’s antifraud watchdog. 4. Olaf has been alerted to UKIP’s use of allowances meant for funding MEPs’ assistants to pay the salaries of party workers. 5. However, leaked e-mails reveal that Farage and his colleagues have failed to provide the EU with requested information about how it gives its regional organisers in Britain jobs as MEPs’ assistants so that their salaries can be paid from public funds. 6. Koen Snijders, who works for the EU’s general finance directorate, said the UKIP leader and his MEPs’ accountant, Robin Collett, had “promised to produce evidence regarding this expenditure” four months earlier but none had materialised. __________________ If you care about what's in your food and where it comes from, then get it labelled! Label My Food - http://www.labelmyfood.org.uk

24-02-2008, 02:17 AM	#34 (permalink)
Anthony Butcher Administrator Join Date: Sep 2004 Location: Long Ashton, Bristol Posts: 9,538 Party: None	Boiling this down, there appears to be a single point of contention for Farage - whether his wife and son do the work they are paid to do (if his son is indeed employed), remembering of course that hiring them isn't illegal. If they do, then really it is just a matter of whether voters and party members approve of nepotism and the political judgment this shows. The article doesn't suggest that either of them isn't doing the work they are paid for, nor does it provide his son's salary. Obviously the direct comparison to Conway is intended to suggest that, but without knowing whether his son receives a full time salary it is impossible to judge much about this. It's not a great vote winner, and however much Farage may claim it is necessary/convenient for him to hire his wife and son (if that is the case), this issue is going to get dragged up continuously by his opponents and he will never be able to criticise the gravy train again with any credibility, if he does in fact employ his son as well. The other major issue, covered many times here, is the issue of Regional Organisers. It could potentially be argued, as in the Denis Brookes case, that they do indeed act full time as political advisors. The sticking point, as I mentioned before, will be the two ROs who work in unrelated regions (as far as I am aware). It is going to be hard to provide any evidence that a Welsh RO provides any geniune non-party work for Roger Knapman, IMHO. More often than not, these things tend to blow over and what seem like massive scandals turn out to be rather less interesting once light has been shone on them. I have tried to provide a balanced analysis of the situation; does anyone disagree with any of it? __________________ If you care about what's in your food and where it comes from, then get it labelled! Label My Food - http://www.labelmyfood.org.uk

24-02-2008, 08:55 AM	#38 (permalink)
mkpdavies Uber Member Join Date: Sep 2004 Location: Woking Posts: 30,615	Sounds like the bits about him paying his son and being under investigation are untrue. Foggio may have just let his obsession with UKIP go a bit to far this time. I can't see him not being sued for this. __________________ http://brits4ronpaul.blogspot.com/ http://wokinglibertarians.blogspot.com/ http://lpuk.org My ignore list Labour, Blue Labour, Lib Dems

24-02-2008, 10:12 AM	#40 (permalink)
Tony Bennett Senior Member Join Date: Aug 2006 Posts: 712	Mates It may be worth bearing in mind that one of Daniel Foggo's key sources re UKIP is his close mate Greg Lance-Watkins. Yes, they are mates. Yes, they cook up anti-UKIP stories together. If Nigel Farage does not either sue for libel re his son, or at the very minimum file an immediate claim with the Press Complaints Commission, then Mark Croucher is wrong. Four reasons not to vote UKIP in the 2009 Euro elections: 1. Ashley Mote: Benefit fraudster locked up for falsely claiming nearly £100,000 Housing Benefit from Chichester District Council - and used the hated E.U. institutions to try and win immunity from prosecution in the British courts 2. Robert Kilroy-Silk - left UKIP after a few months, never seen in the East Midlands, and doesn't actively campaign for Britain to leave the E.U. 3. Tom Wise - irregularities re false claims for money paid to researchers and Peugeot car bought on E.U. staff allowance, currently under investigation by OLAF 4. Nigel Farage - pays wife and son at Exeter University from E.U. staff allowances, currently under investigation by OLAF (allegedly) -------------------------------------------------------------------------------

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24-02-2008, 01:46 AM	#32 (permalink)
BASILDON BOY Senior Member Join Date: May 2005 Location: N'Djamena, Chad Posts: 1,686	Untrue or not - damage done - always to the run up to elections - gives UKIPs opponents another stick to beat UKIP with!

24-02-2008, 08:37 AM	#37 (permalink)
prober Senior Member Join Date: Oct 2005 Posts: 803	Let us be clear. It is the duty of UKIP MEPs to exploit the EU gravy train to milk funds to the full TO BE USED AGAINST THE SYSTEM & GET US OUT. Any funds used for personal benefit is £ take away from the members who got MEPs elected and £ pocketed which is desperately needed to employ dedicated quality staff for publications, branch building etc etc . Any employment of relatives must be totally transparent above board and because they are best for the job and approved by the NEC or other independent panel, to prevent corruption. Is this the same son who is a member of the Conservative Club at college ? What is the phone No and email address and job description of the wife being employed ? Has anyone had dealings with her ? What has she achieved for UKIP ? etc etc. Already members are leaving because of UKIP's decision not to fight for a referendum . Whats the 2009 slogan ? "Members contribute your £ so UKIP can get 20 MEPs, 20 wives and 20 sons on the payroll" ? THis could knock the heart out of activists left. There is a massive case to answer. NIgel better do so quickly & openly . Firmly squash anything untrue, & fully justify what is true.

24-02-2008, 10:01 AM	#39 (permalink)
Bluemerle Uber Member Join Date: Jan 2005 Location: Dorset. Posts: 3,246	So, are we to take it that NF's son has joined the Conservatives at Uni but is being paid to help UKIP by Daddy. Ehh?