United Kingdom Independence party accused of diverting EU allowances - Page 2

Eurosceptic Atlanticist · 23-02-2008, 11:01 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Mark Croucher

I think you'll find these allegations are bollox. And you can put money on that.

Rgds

Mark

Perhaps, we'll see.

Even if they are 'bollox', the article has already done the damage.

steve fowler · 23-02-2008, 11:04 PM

I want to know the source of the leaked emails before i start ripping Farage to bits.

mkpdavies · 23-02-2008, 11:08 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Mark Croucher

I think you'll find these allegations are bollox. And you can put money on that.

Rgds

Mark

God I hope you are right. If you are, I expect Foggio to be sued and sued big time.

Tom Wilde · 23-02-2008, 11:20 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by mkpdavies

God I hope you are right. If you are, I expect Foggio to be sued and sued big time.

How would that work, Matt?

Supposing it is indeed bollox (and I really hope it is

) - can Foggo be sued for falsely alleging that Farage does something which is legal and which according to the small print at the end of his article about 1/3 of UK MEPs are doing? I reckon Foggo is as safe as houses. As usual.

mkpdavies · 23-02-2008, 11:27 PM

Shagging the neighbour's wife is also legal, but you can still get sued for claiming someone did it, when they didn't.

This would be a clear case for libel if it isn't true. Given Farage's stand on it only days before on T.V, I think he would have a very strong case of libel.

Quote:

In law, defamation (also called vilification, slander, and libel) is the communication of a statement that makes a false claim, expressively stated or implied to be factual, that may harm the reputation of an individual, business, product, group, government or nation. Most jurisdictions allow legal actions, civil and/or criminal, to deter various kinds of defamation and retaliate against groundless criticism. Related to defamation is public disclosure of private facts arises where one person reveals information which is not of public concern, and the release of which would offend a reasonable person[1]. "Unlike libel or slander, truth is not a defense for invasion of privacy."[2]
In law, defamation (also called vilification, slander, and libel) is the communication of a statement that makes a false claim, expressively stated or implied to be factual, that may harm the reputation of an individual, business, product, group, government or nation. Most jurisdictions allow legal actions, civil and/or criminal, to deter various kinds of defamation and retaliate against groundless criticism. Related to defamation is public disclosure of private facts arises where one person reveals information which is not of public concern, and the release of which would offend a reasonable person[1]. "Unlike libel or slander, truth is not a defense for invasion of privacy."[2]

Tom Wilde · 23-02-2008, 11:31 PM

Interesting. This story certainly harms his reputation, so I think you're right. So the question is, is the story true? Foggo usually seems to be pretty careful about getting his facts right even if he then uses them in a pretty loaded way.

Independent UKIP · 23-02-2008, 11:33 PM

I'm up for the puke challenge Matt!! Though read the end before putting your head in the toilet bowl!

It is comparable to the case of Conway only if as with Conway there is no evidence of the work being paid for taking place. The comments about "full-time education" and "full-time university student" says more to be about Foggo than Farage. Nowadays most Uni students have to work. I don't have the figures in front of me but who is going to deny that vast numbers of full-time students work during term time and/or during holidays. So the explicit implication that because Farage's son is in full-time eductation he cannot actually be working for the money he is being paid is both offensive and ludicrous.

"He is being investigated by Olaf" - clearly phrased by Foggo to imply to the cursory reader that his wife and son are the source of the suggested investigation when he produces not a shred of evidence for this & instantly goes on to mention another matter apparently under investigation. The Brookes verdict mentioned by Nikki Sinclaire may be relevant here. I am no expert on this (or anything for that matter) but note again the delight by opponents of the UKIP leadership on this forum at the possiblity that UKIP MEPs using EU allocated monies who have used it to help UKIP in the UK might be in breach of EU rules. On that I congratulate those MEPs and do not condemn them.

On the leaked emails. I presume a full investigation will be taking place a la Tillack. If not the EU stands condemned by their own hypocrisy.

The claim contradicted by a former UKIP regional organiser couldn't be Brookes could it? He would not having lost his case against Nattrass have gone to Foggo to denounce Farage would he? I do not believe he would do such a thing.

I see the email quoted is from the commission. I wonder who was on the cc list for that email. Presumably Farage knows and as Snijders is named I also presume he/she was not the source.

Quote:

promised to produce evidence regarding this expenditure

Expenditure on what? Paperwork on what? Foggo is deliberately vague on the matter, again letting the cursory reader think it relates to his son without saying any such thing. Since Farage is reported, though not quoted, that the paperwork would eventually be supplied but is earlier quoted about 'ridiculous questions' about his son and bearing in mind the earlier obscure nature of Foggo's writing I think there is a strong likelihood that the expenditure referred to is nothing about his son and everything about the use of allocated EU funds for MEPs.

The end bit:

If his son is not being paid taxpayers money Farage has to publicly demonstrate that.

If his son is being paid taxpayers money Farage has to publicly demonstrate that he is doing the work he is being paid for and anything like receiving £100 an hour (figure chosen at random by me) for straightforward constituency work is not acceptable to me.

Being fed up with answering "ridiculous questions" is not acceptable unless this issue is indeed ridiculous.

If Farage cannot respond rapidly & satisfactorily to the issue of the employment of his son then he should resign as leader and I will have lost confidence in his leadership of the party. ie, QUIT NOW.

I therefore hope he will respond rapidly and satisfactorily.

steve fowler · 23-02-2008, 11:39 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Tom Wilde

Interesting. This story certainly harms his reputation,

Im wondering if thats the idea? as Farage was on tv the other night exposing what the other MEPS are up to with their money im wondering if this is Brussels trying to make the public and the voters think he is up to the same thing, as we know the EU is taking over control of the media aswell.

Independent UKIP · 23-02-2008, 11:46 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Tom Wilde

Interesting. This story certainly harms his reputation, so I think you're right. So the question is, is the story true? Foggo usually seems to be pretty careful about getting his facts right even if he then uses them in a pretty loaded way.

The story has been very carefully crafted by Foggo in my opinion. I see no case for legal action unless Farage's son is not actually in receipt of money. In which case Farage junior and senior should sue away.

Separate reply: I don't fully follow that because "allegations" [what allegations?] are bollox (not a legal term known to me) a libel claim should therefore be made. Misleading & bad reporting by Foggo does not allow for a libel action in my opinion, unless Farage really wants to lose money and what reputation he still has.

mkpdavies · 23-02-2008, 11:52 PM

If the story is true, then it is game over UKIP. There will be no credibility left and the party bet all its chips on Farage.

If it is false though, then Farage could make himself a tidy sum of wedge and probably get some publicity in the process.

23-02-2008, 11:04 PM	#12 (permalink)
steve fowler Senior Member Join Date: Jun 2007 Location: Nr Birmingham Posts: 1,064	I want to know the source of the leaked emails before i start ripping Farage to bits. __________________ RULE BRITANNIA BRITANNIA RULES THE WAVES, BRITONS NEVER EVER SHALL BE SLAVE'S. Never give in - never, never, never, never, in nothing great or small, large or petty, never give in except to convictions of honor and good sense. Never yield to force; never yield to the apparently overwhelming might of the enemy. Winston Churchill. When Labour won the 1997 General Election, Enoch Powell told his wife that the electorate had voted to break up the United Kingdom.

23-02-2008, 11:52 PM	#20 (permalink)
mkpdavies Uber Member Join Date: Sep 2004 Location: Woking Posts: 30,276	If the story is true, then it is game over UKIP. There will be no credibility left and the party bet all its chips on Farage. If it is false though, then Farage could make himself a tidy sum of wedge and probably get some publicity in the process. __________________ http://brits4ronpaul.blogspot.com/ http://wokinglibertarians.blogspot.com/ http://lpuk.org My ignore list Labour, Blue Labour, Lib Dems

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23-02-2008, 11:31 PM	#16 (permalink)
Tom Wilde Moderator Join Date: Sep 2004 Location: London. Posts: 2,638	Interesting. This story certainly harms his reputation, so I think you're right. So the question is, is the story true? Foggo usually seems to be pretty careful about getting his facts right even if he then uses them in a pretty loaded way.