UKIP YI is organising a trip to Strasbourg with Mike Nattrass MEP in the spring of 20

mkpdavies · 24-01-2008, 09:58 AM

If you are happy with that as a way to spend taxpayer cash, then that's fine.

As I said though, it isn't why I joined UKIP. I want nothing but contempt shown towards it and what taxpayers money is spent, should be 100% on helping get us out. I don't buy jollies for the boys as a good investment.

eublues · 24-01-2008, 10:00 AM

Can see the problem myself - trying to get more people to see what a mischief the EU is.

mkpdavies · 24-01-2008, 10:04 AM

UKIP youth members REALLY should understand that anyway, without the need of a taxpayer funded junkette.

eublues · 24-01-2008, 10:08 AM

I went on such a trip a couple of years ago organised by UKIP. It was very interesting and deepened my anti-EU views. It was hardly a 'junket'.

mkpdavies · 24-01-2008, 10:16 AM

It is exactly what it is.

If I wanted to learn more about something, I would pay for it myself, not expect the taxpayer to foot the bill.

Ron Paul is entitled to matching funds, but refuses to take them. He returns a portion of his allocated budget every year.

Principles mean a lot to me. As a libertarian, I expect the very best use of taxpayers money. I simply don't accept this is the best use. If it was used to take non-UKIP members to be educated it would be a little more tollerable (not much mind). Just think if the Lib Dems do it (they probably do) to make people more EUphile. It makes me want to puke.

Anyway, in the scheme of things it isn't a huge deal. Just the final straw on an issue I have had for some time. IE, UKIP has been corrupted by the whole MEP thing.

eublues · 24-01-2008, 10:21 AM

I am against tax payer subsidy for such things - but the reality is that the europhiles are milking this silly. For UKIP to join in a bit is not, as you say, a big deal.

At least someone is trying to do something tangible to get young people on board and involved.

mkpdavies · 24-01-2008, 10:27 AM

I think showing true principle is better in the long run than trying to keep up with the EUphile Jones in a race to waste taxpayers money.

As I said, it would be a little more tollerable if they weren't taking the already converted on the jolly.

It doesn't matter anyway. UKIP can use the money for what they wanted and people will judge if they used it wisley at the next election. As there will be no better option for me during the next EU election at least, I will have no choice but to vote for the lesser of two evils at that time.

eublues · 24-01-2008, 10:35 AM

When I went on trip to EU parliament, it was wonderful to see the astonished look of the EU Parliament minder-woman's face when NF spoke to my group in a meeting room there about what really goes on.

She clearly had never been present at a meeting were anything but reverence for the EU was expressed.

Michael Heaver · 24-01-2008, 11:06 AM

Matt, I understand where you're coming from up to a point. I'm libertarian leaning and a keen admirer of Ron Paul. However, this trip is an investment. Seeing the belly of the beast first hand is going to make that beast far easier to attack.
After going on this trip, everytime I'm arguing with the liberal student mass, the line of "remind me, have YOU actually been to this monstrocity?" is going to add considerable validity to my viewpoint. This trip isn't a "jolly" - do you think I don't have better things to do, like say, my education? I'm absolutely dedicated to awakening people of my age of what is going on. This trip is an absolutely priceless experience that is going to give myself and other people involved in Young Independence the ability to argue their point with even more justification and with passion of an even more fiery nature I'm sure.

mkpdavies · 24-01-2008, 11:08 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by eublues

When I went on trip to EU parliament, it was wonderful to see the astonished look of the EU Parliament minder-woman's face when NF spoke to my group in a meeting room there about what really goes on.

She clearly had never been present at a meeting were anything but reverence for the EU was expressed.

What good does that acheive though? What benefit? It might be fun, but fun isn't my idea of a good obejective. Every penny I see spent, should be focused on getting Britain out of the EU. If it doesn't acheive that aim, then I'd rather it wasn't spent.

I'd rather UKIP had the moral high ground of being able to go to the media, or make their own media, pointing out how OTHERS waste money. Trying to waste money at the same rate is foolish, as it is a battle you can't win when 99% of that shithole is about self preservation. We just soil ourselves when we play by their rules.

24-01-2008, 09:58 AM	#11 (permalink)
mkpdavies Uber Member Join Date: Sep 2004 Location: Woking Posts: 32,078 Party: Libertarian Party	If you are happy with that as a way to spend taxpayer cash, then that's fine. As I said though, it isn't why I joined UKIP. I want nothing but contempt shown towards it and what taxpayers money is spent, should be 100% on helping get us out. I don't buy jollies for the boys as a good investment. __________________ http://brits4ronpaul.blogspot.com/ http://wokinglibertarians.blogspot.com/ http://lpuk.org My ignore list Labour, Lib Dems

24-01-2008, 10:04 AM	#13 (permalink)
mkpdavies Uber Member Join Date: Sep 2004 Location: Woking Posts: 32,078 Party: Libertarian Party	UKIP youth members REALLY should understand that anyway, without the need of a taxpayer funded junkette. __________________ http://brits4ronpaul.blogspot.com/ http://wokinglibertarians.blogspot.com/ http://lpuk.org My ignore list Labour, Lib Dems

24-01-2008, 10:16 AM	#15 (permalink)
mkpdavies Uber Member Join Date: Sep 2004 Location: Woking Posts: 32,078 Party: Libertarian Party	It is exactly what it is. If I wanted to learn more about something, I would pay for it myself, not expect the taxpayer to foot the bill. Ron Paul is entitled to matching funds, but refuses to take them. He returns a portion of his allocated budget every year. Principles mean a lot to me. As a libertarian, I expect the very best use of taxpayers money. I simply don't accept this is the best use. If it was used to take non-UKIP members to be educated it would be a little more tollerable (not much mind). Just think if the Lib Dems do it (they probably do) to make people more EUphile. It makes me want to puke. Anyway, in the scheme of things it isn't a huge deal. Just the final straw on an issue I have had for some time. IE, UKIP has been corrupted by the whole MEP thing. __________________ http://brits4ronpaul.blogspot.com/ http://wokinglibertarians.blogspot.com/ http://lpuk.org My ignore list Labour, Lib Dems Last edited by mkpdavies; 24-01-2008 at 10:19 AM.

24-01-2008, 10:27 AM	#17 (permalink)
mkpdavies Uber Member Join Date: Sep 2004 Location: Woking Posts: 32,078 Party: Libertarian Party	I think showing true principle is better in the long run than trying to keep up with the EUphile Jones in a race to waste taxpayers money. As I said, it would be a little more tollerable if they weren't taking the already converted on the jolly. It doesn't matter anyway. UKIP can use the money for what they wanted and people will judge if they used it wisley at the next election. As there will be no better option for me during the next EU election at least, I will have no choice but to vote for the lesser of two evils at that time. __________________ http://brits4ronpaul.blogspot.com/ http://wokinglibertarians.blogspot.com/ http://lpuk.org My ignore list Labour, Lib Dems

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24-01-2008, 10:00 AM	#12 (permalink)
eublues Uber Member Join Date: Nov 2004 Posts: 3,198	Can see the problem myself - trying to get more people to see what a mischief the EU is.

24-01-2008, 10:08 AM	#14 (permalink)
eublues Uber Member Join Date: Nov 2004 Posts: 3,198	I went on such a trip a couple of years ago organised by UKIP. It was very interesting and deepened my anti-EU views. It was hardly a 'junket'.

24-01-2008, 10:21 AM	#16 (permalink)
eublues Uber Member Join Date: Nov 2004 Posts: 3,198	I am against tax payer subsidy for such things - but the reality is that the europhiles are milking this silly. For UKIP to join in a bit is not, as you say, a big deal. At least someone is trying to do something tangible to get young people on board and involved.

24-01-2008, 10:35 AM	#18 (permalink)
eublues Uber Member Join Date: Nov 2004 Posts: 3,198	When I went on trip to EU parliament, it was wonderful to see the astonished look of the EU Parliament minder-woman's face when NF spoke to my group in a meeting room there about what really goes on. She clearly had never been present at a meeting were anything but reverence for the EU was expressed.

24-01-2008, 11:06 AM	#19 (permalink)
Michael Heaver Member Join Date: Mar 2007 Posts: 394 Party: UKIP	Matt, I understand where you're coming from up to a point. I'm libertarian leaning and a keen admirer of Ron Paul. However, this trip is an investment. Seeing the belly of the beast first hand is going to make that beast far easier to attack. After going on this trip, everytime I'm arguing with the liberal student mass, the line of "remind me, have YOU actually been to this monstrocity?" is going to add considerable validity to my viewpoint. This trip isn't a "jolly" - do you think I don't have better things to do, like say, my education? I'm absolutely dedicated to awakening people of my age of what is going on. This trip is an absolutely priceless experience that is going to give myself and other people involved in Young Independence the ability to argue their point with even more justification and with passion of an even more fiery nature I'm sure.