Geoffrey Collier

Many people who attended the Bournemouth conference were from some of the best and largest branches in existence. To no small extent we actually created UKIP and made it viable in its early days. We saw what was needed then and we can see serious mistakes being made now. Do you realise that 68% of the electorate, broadly share the concerns of UKIP. Sadly, at election times, we receive about .03% of all votes cast. There is a serious problem and it is not being addressed. We should be leading, by example, the need for a referendum. Everyone, competent in the subject, should be explaining the Lisbon Treaty. The latter is a contradiction of the UN Declaration, which guarantees the right to national self-determination. Parties, like UKIP, cannot be suppressed by some EU Edict. As both founders and Permanent Members of the UN we must ensure that the Lisbon Treaty will be brought before the UN General Assembly if necessary. That Treaty is a contradiction of all that which we value and have defended both for ourselves and other nations over the years.

These are the issues which we discussed last Saturday, I have been opposed to this political union since the 1959 Stockholm Agreement. To those who want to laugh and snigger, let them continue, because it will be a different type of person, a wholly different psychology, who will be required to see this battle through to its final conclusion.

Independent UKIP

Just on that narrow point do you mean, "about 3% of all votes cast."? If not and you are just referring to local elections you should mention that in the first instance. And I'll have to take your word for it. If we had enough willing members to contest all the seats at local elections the share of votes would be immensely higher. But they would all need to talk to voters about street lighting more than the UN General Assembly, in my opinion.

Even in the whole of Scotland, where UKIP support is regrettably especially low, at the last general election UKIP received 0.4% of all the votes despite only contesting 37% of the seats. So .03% cannot possibly relate to national or european elections.

Petrina

I went down to the Phoenix Meeting .About 130 people there ,I noticed that there were quite a few different faces from last time .The audience came from all over the country ,I spoke to people from the South East /South West ,Manchester ,
Midlands .General view was why are we not doing more ? I got quite a few new subscribers to the CIB which pleasd me .
Even Linda Guest was there with an impassioned plea for a new party to form!

The impression I got was that it was a meeting to inform the audience of what is going on Eurosceptic wise ,a lot less hard-hitting than last time as far as UKIP is concerned probably due to lack of audience participation .Last time was almost 1000% audience participation .
Very interesting quick talk by John Galloway on his complaint ot the Parliamentary Ombudsman ,complaining that the Govt. have misled the House re by stating that this treaty is substantially diffent from the constitution.I`ve looked at the paperwork and it should cause them all a headache as he is so obviously correct in his assertions .

Geoffrey Collier

IND UKIP: That is an aggregate of all votes cast in elections.Westminster/EU/local. The point being made is that we are reaping a small harvest from the existing crop. A company which reaped only that percentage from a potential sales market would accept that it had a 'problem of contact' with their potential customers. At the end of the day a political party is 'selling' an idea/policy/ideology-call it what you like.

If we are in a situation where the issue is now lego-politico, it is no use talking about street-lighting. To thrust our way into the centre of the debate, we can now only challenge what is being proposed by the politicians in the courts. Our best course of action would be to put our weight behind a Judicial Review; if nothing else, that at least could cause some delay to the 'Lisbon' process. UKIP should be the hub of activity, the point to which others gravitate. If there is a better idea- given that time is running-out-
what do you deem it to be?

I am very worried that your 'master plan' which involves talking to people about street lighting. Are you some pathetic liberal? I certainly hope that you are not on UKIP's pay-roll or have anything to do with elections.

UKIP members endeavour to take local action on various matters - often without any support or encouragement- and, more importantly at their own expense. That is a different kind of commitment from appearing on 'QuestionTime' or 'Any Questions', and the like, for a generous remuneration'. Moral authority and competence is sadly lacking from many who presume to lead UKIP. That isn't a ' debating point', but an irrefutable fact. A total failure to address that problem has been central to our misfortune.

prober

AS GF touched on. UKIP needed to be run as a business with business development uppermost, eg brand, principles, product, message, capability building, advertising , how to gain market share, optimum use of resources, professionalism, efficiency in objectives, "staff" morale building .This isnt about £ , but instead mindset.

Sod street lights. UKIP is now the only party that reckons the route to success is individual micro local issues unrelated to party, ignores other parties and considers its name is an electoral disadvantage instead of making it an advantage. Pathetic. Compare to iny BNP & their electoral success in mixing macro clear position and selecting a local issue to illustrate. UKIP should be in thje game of showing the electorate why they dont need to vote BNP to be heard.

At this late stage its attacking the evils of this government & LDs in betraying democracy , the uselessness of Tories, showing a differnet brancd to the lot and a way forward andf aim for both the fed up and positive change vote on macro issues.

Rosie

Enough Is Enough

Seems there is a Phoenix type group working within the BNP too. Can't say I shed any tears over that, but it does seem a great coincidence.

Geoffrey Collier

Rosie: Please spend more time cleaning your clogs and getting t' mill on time,
rather than on subjects for which you have very little to contribute.

The BNP, sadly, get unnecessary publicity by those people, like you, who never miss an opportunity to connect them with UKIP. The supporters of the BNP, in previous times had their sympathisers in the N.F. and numerous similar organisations. When honourable people were making a desperate attempt to beat fascism in Spain, other were beating-up Jews in Brick Lane. When war appeared imminent, Moseley wanted an 'accommodation' with the late Fuehrer. When war came, many of the top leaders in those movements were interned, as being too 'unrealiable' to remain free and too untrustworthy to join the military.

You have discerned some relationship, have you, between those who organised and funded the Bournemouth meeting and those to whom reference has been made above? What about those who appoint ex-NF officials as their election agents: do you feel that shows good political acumen and is a practice which we should all emulate?

Rosie

Calm down Geoffrey, calm down. Take a deep breath and re-read your post. I think you will agree with me, that a little more time on your spelling and grammar would have paid dividends.

And you really should step into the 21st century and stop your tedious caricatures of people in the North, it's neither clever, funny nor accurate. And, as I am not a Northerner, it's probably bigotted and prejudiced.

Geoffrey Collier

Rosie: A few typing errors and other mistakes, hardly provides you with a basis to be dismissive of my central message. The increased prominence of the BNP has resulted, to no small extent, from name-calling by the likes of you. What mental processes are required to link the Phoenix Forum with the BNP? You raised the subject, now provide the explanation.

Finally, if you insist on using words like bigoted to describe me, please spell them correctly. You spell wrongly out of ignorance, I do it merely to keep the common-touch- quite a different thing; don't you know anything girl?

Mikeuk

Honourable people? Are you talking about the Communists, Anarchists and other scoundrels who supported the Spanish priest-killers?

Since the population of Brick Lane - I used to work just across the road from it - was about 90% Jewish before the war, 'beating up Jews in Brick Lane' would have been a singularly ill-advised pastime.

Who's 'Moseley'. Are you referring to Sir Oswald Mosley?

What the fu*k is the relevance of this half-baked history lesson? Are you trying to rival your speaker David Noakes in the conspiracy theory stakes?