Englander 1

I personally have no problem with individual groups setting up, if they are utilised effectively they can be a very positive development.

Sometimes you need to let the ideas and initiatives flow; but be strong enough to manage the developments which may not always be to your overall plan.

Is there any reason why the frustrations and concerns have not filtered through your local branch network?

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gimlet

There were no demands made just requests, otherwise we would have written "You are to...". From my past experience of forwarding ideas to improve the party, and receiving no reply, it is only professional to set a deadline. I set deadlines at work - to maintain progress of projects, UKIP is no different.
If I am using my free time and efforts looking after my branch then I at the very least I expect an efficient communications structure, and one where members have their voices heard - its called democracy.

PETWINA

Have you tried communicating with your Regional Organiser or Regional Committee gimlet?

douglas denny

No! ...... Now let's get it right:

"Grassroots" is a small selected group of malcontents who are in UKIP who have their own agenda and ignor the rest of the leadership efforts including the policy groups which already exist.
If they wanted to have a useful effect they could have put themselves forward for serving on these goups, but prefer instead to bellyache on the sidelines.

The last lot were called 'Veritas'.

They are a waste of time and space and should really leave UKIP and take their useless dissent elsewhere.

Douglas Denny.

chikrodah

Generalisation is a wonderful thing, isn't it?


I'd say, "Come off the fence, DD and tell us what you really think." But we'd just get more of the same, wouldn't we? Why is nobody else allowed to have a differing opinion without being subject to ad hominem attacks?

BTW, how, exactly, does one get onto one of these "policy groups"?

douglas denny

I note the use of the term 'ad hominem' attacks is used a lot on this group.
Why don't you use the simple English meaning of 'ad hominem':- i.e. ....'personal' attack (s)?

In fact I was not using an 'ad hominem' attack I was attacking a particular group (which strictly speaking is not 'ad hominem').

I know some of this particular "Grassroots" group and I can tell you their motives are extremely suspect. They are following in the footsteps of Veritas, and have been engendered by the same discontented types and motivations. Why they don't just leave I do not know. They are useless political baggage UKIP can do without. Like 'moles' on your skin - ugly and useless and need excising.

Two (at least) in particular of which have consistently attacked the UKIP 'leadership' (I mean NF and the NEC and anyone else associated with those) - with no obvious positive input in all the blather they generate - just attack, attack for the sake of it.
They claim to be trying to 'improve' UKIP - but if their "policies" are examined closely are found to be seriously flawed, wanting in many respects, if not downright unworkable and/or daft.
No, - the serious way forward is what UKIP is doing - getting together experts in their particular field to generate proper sensible policies.

There is nothing wrong in discussing ways forward for the party of course in groups or individually. By all means have "fringe meetings", but the presentation is all important, and a side-show openly denigrating the efforts of the existing "management" consistently and constantly is not conducive to good progress.

Advertising for input to the policiy groups was made in the Ind. News and on the website I believe. Input can always be made via David Campbell-Bannerman who is co-ordinating them. If you think you are an expert in a particular subject and want to contribute - contact him.

Douglas.

Independent UKIP

I really hope they don't leave UKIP. If they did so I'll flatter the Eng Dems here and say they are the only possible destination for them beyond total political oblivion. Though that might be a problem if grassroots includes UKIP members from Wales, Scotland & Northern Ireland and I doubt certain senior ED members (not members of this forum) would welcome it either.

brian lee

Not quite accurate. Before they were Veritas they were dissatified paid up members of UKIP.

However, it is interesting to compare the description of the "Grass Roots, " They are a waste of time and space and should really leave UKIP and take their useless dissent elsewhere." with that of Nigel Farage's reply to the letter from 'Grass Roots', which wished them well in their new party.

At least he said 'Get stuffed', nicely.

douglas denny

And most of 'Grassroots' are presently dissatisfied paid-up members of UKIP who are not helping 'the cause' or UKIP. They are being self-indulgent in exercising their own private agendas and prejudices. They should just get on with the job of attacking the real enemy which is the EU instead of the party which will get them out of it..

I am not so nice.
I say 'Grassroots' -get stuffed! directly ....

but then I am a just a blunt rough Northerner.

DED.
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Anthony Butcher

Firstly, I can't believe that you are so keen to get rid of fellow party members; surely UKIP should be seeking to bring them into the fold to avoid another Veritas style split? You may have forgotten but it was very damaging to UKIP at the time and killed off what positive momentum it had left. Is it actually party policy to encourage anyone who disagrees with the party direction to leave?

Secondly I don't recall you ever telling Geoffrey Kingscott to his face that he was political baggage with 'suspect' motives when he was General Secretary and organising the party on a day-to-day basis.

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