charlie endell

UK Independence Party - Community service: not just for criminals

Surely you guys are having a laugh? This is from the front page of your own website, by your man Mr Atkinson-

Some London schools are now having their pupils' uniforms lined with Kevlar to make them stab-proof. errrr.... no! Actually 5 parents raised the subject with a manufacturer of protective clothing. This is how your "UKIP Myths" begin.


Above all we should not make school until 18 obligatory, but allow young people to leave at 16 if they wish. What a radical idea! But it think its already been done.

Nor should Civic Service be only for young men. Our young women are perfectly capable of serving the community every bit as well. Nice of you to admit it... or is that just a sop to the feminists?

What a laugh this is!

tito

It is not the policy of the party. Just some authoritarian loon who brought it up at the conference.

I have no idea why it is on ukip.org

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For life, Liberty and Prosperity
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Westcountryman

To say the conference misunderstood the motion could not be further from the truth.

I don't care if the service is combatant or not, myself and the rest of YI voted it down BECAUSE IT'S AGAINST OUR PERSONAL LIBERTY.

If people WANT to volunteer to do community service or similar, then they will, take your authoritarian bullsh*t elsewhere.

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Manus haec inimica tyrannis ense petit placidam sub libertate quietam - "This hand of mine, which is hostile to tyrants, seeks by the sword quiet peace under liberty."

steve fowler

And dont assume that the members or the party itself always agree to everything that is said ,written or shown where ever you see it Charlie.

Aardvark

MU, but what about civic duty?

It is not 'authoritarian' to require people who take from society to put something back. Since when did you get the right to a free education, free roads, health service and a miriad other things without any requirement to contribute?

Most people in our society do not return, through taxes in their lifetimes, the real value of what they receive. It is perfectly acceptable to have national community service (having spent 17.5 years in the military I am opposed to having conscripts serving alongside me). It is simplistic to say that you have a right to receive all of the goodies that society can give, but that you should receive them for free. I would dump all those who don't want to contribute to society on West Falkland with no houses, schools, hospitals or anything that requires a contribution and see how long they could survive in a society based entirely on rights, but not on responsibilities. It would be like living permanently in the big brother house, but with less caring and considerate people.

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When in Woking do as the Wokes do.

"I do not wish to form my opinions by thoughtlessly quoting others; I wish others to support their opinions by sensibly quoting me." Paul Wesson (Aardvark) 13th April 2008

Westcountryman

Ever heard of tax?

Pretty sure the Country used to run balanced budgets. But hey, I support the privatisation of the NHS for a start, so that should help.

The State has no right to enslave its inhabitants.

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Manus haec inimica tyrannis ense petit placidam sub libertate quietam - "This hand of mine, which is hostile to tyrants, seeks by the sword quiet peace under liberty."

charlie endell

If its on the front page of the party website, I think we can assume the party agrees to it.

If that is not the case, can we assume the party agrees to nothing on its own website? Or maybe it only agrees with some of it. If the latter is the case, how do we know which articles on the party website the party agrees with, and which articles it disagrees with?

Actually, my point was not so much whether this is UKIP policy, so much as about the wisdom of having such politically illiterate drivel on your website. Its so embarrassingly dreadful, you just have to feel sorry for the poor guy that wrote it. Maybe its gone up there because somebody on your own team wants to discredit him?

charlie endell

In a quiet, sleepy town in Kent there are the beginnings of race riots. The head of Cambridgeshire police is calling for more money because the surge in immigrants has resulted in more crime and higher costs in solving those crimes

Says Annabelle Fuller on your website.

There were race riots in London in the 1950s, so you can't blame the EU... If anybody is to blame for the mess we are presently in, it must be Thatcher, who promised in 1979 to sort out immigration, then promptly opened the floodgates.

I note that Ms Fuller criticises the many all-expenses paid trips MEPs have . I understand that she herself is off to Lisbon this week with your illustrious party leader.

Independent UKIP

Who was to blame for the mess in the 1950s then? Let me guess your view; some were on a well known boat from the caribbean?

Do you suggest that Mr Farage should go alone to Lisbon or not go at all. I suspect the BBC will have plenty of people there at my and possibly your expense. Is it not the duty of Farage and the UKIP press office to attend such an important event for the benefit of the party and the nation. Or should they stay completely away from the event and all the potential positive coverage for UKIP and the withdrawalist cause? A couple of days of very hard work at an EU summit in Lisbon is not my idea of an objectionable all expenses paid trip.

Independent UKIP

The party agrees with, the party disagrees with. I don't know which branch of totalitarianism you believe in but an internally democratic party such as UKIP (despite its flaws) doesn't have to have everything on the website or at the conference or in the newsletter agree with the non-existent supreme leader's view of this present day.

Referring to your original points of substance I haven't seen that story but you do not suggest that the schools have refused Kevlar lining in their uniform. If parents have had that work done to the uniforms then the part of the article is accurate is it not. I trust you have spoken to all those parents, plus all the UK providers of the protective material in case Mr Atkinson is referring to something different altogether. If I was you I'd be more worried about the fact you assert that several parents have looked into this than making a cheap point against an article on the UKIP website.

On your second point you may have overlooked the fact that the current Labour regime is intent on making education/training/work compulsory for all until the age of 18 rather than 16 on pain of civil and ultimately criminal penalties. I oppose that change, Mr Atkinson opposes that change, I hope the UKIP manifesto at the next election opposes that change. Your view on the matter is unstated. Do you support the further criminalisation of young people or do you agree with what you otherwise assert is, "politically illiterate drivel"?

Of course his suggestion on civic service, regardless of whether it is agreed with or not, should also apply to females. That is patently relevant to the fact that National Service did not apply to females. It is regrettable that in 2007 such a point still needs to be made but it is certainly not exclusive to UKIP. I've heard Blair/Brown/Cameron/Campbell refer to young men and young women in all sorts of contexts but especially in the sphere of military service. Is that equally unacceptable for them to do in your view? If so why did you not say so when expressing your views on a UKIP member?