Millennium3

I think you are aware B that I had intended 'this gives UKIP no alternative but to back Cameron' at the next election.

Would you be prepared for UKIP to fight the Tories if it seriously reduced their chances of putting Cameron in the position of holding a referendum on the 'amended' constitution - which it most certainly would?

SuperiorSteve

Tories are either naive or blatant traitors. Can't we just take over a City and make it EU-free? We could rule it under English Law. I'm getting sick of this ****, we have to do something about this. They have been getting away with treason for 50 odd years (since the inception of the EC rather than our involvement) and they need to learn that collaborators will be dealt with.

__________________
"Remember that you are an Englishman, and have consequently won first prize in the lottery of life" Cecil Rhodes

Millennium3

B you have an unhealthy habit of adjusting posts to change their meaning. What I posted was:

'UKIP has used its influence to spoil Tory chances - it does not have enough influence, because of the strategy adopted, to create.'

Which you adjusted to:

UKIP.....it does not have enough influence....

You have then attacked this statement [adjusted by you] to say precisely what I was saying in the first place. [Yes UKIP has the ability to spoil Tory chances, and that's all it has done - not contentrated on creating a fully fledged political party which might have made a positive contribution]. Further more it has possibly kept the Tory out of office, and kept Labour in office who are far more in favour of the EU - allowing the EU to develop more quickly as a result.

It does raise the question again - is NF actually an agent of the EU whose job it is to undermine the main party likely to keep the EU's powers at least in check?

Jim Smith

It is nonsense to say that Nigel is an agent of the EC. However (biting my tongue) we have to decide what is in the best interests of the country.

UKIP could strengthen the Conservatives position after the next GE. Not to make it the biggest party let alone be the Govt.

But it could help it grow by 20 to 30 MPs. It has already decided to do that for 2 to 3 through BOO. If those extra MPs were all Eurosceptics and with their main Leadership committed to the referendum now and in the future, then it has the basis for acting for the higher aim of stemming the drift to Eurofederalism.

There are also advantages by focusing resources on fewer seats to build up support in an area. The Fib Dems did this and grew back to a main party, the BNP only stood in 100 seats in 2005 and are growing. UKIP fight everywhere and achieve nothing other than to cause the defeat of some Eurosceptic Tories and some europhile ones.

Spread our cash across 100 rather than 650 makes sense.

Millennium3

NF can demolish any question of him being an EU agent by acting in a statesman like fashion and backing Cameron fully. It does not matter whether the extra Tory MP's are pro or anti the EU - NF's sole purpose in giving this backing is to provide the best chance possible of getting a referendum on the 'amended' treaty.

I fully agree that UKIP would make greater progress by developing those local parties which are strongest [but do not interfere with Tory fortunes at this time] - I think there is a number of seats which must be fought to give maximum TV coverage - this might be the target, but no more without very good reason.

Britannist

Millennium3: I put your question to a UKIP friend of mine who asks in reply "Would you be prepared for the Conservatives to fight UKIP if it (split the anti-EU vote and) seriously reduced the chances of electing a Government committed to recovering and keeping our sovereignty?"

Britannist

I see it differently, Millennium3 - you said UKIP does not have enough influence and I wrote - in response - that it is thought that UKIP did influence the outcome in a number of marginal constituencies at the last General Election.

Britannist

I was initially a bit concerned about UKIP "spreading itself too thinly" by fighting over 400 constituencies at a General Election.

However, the europhiles would be delighted if UKIP suddenly announced that it was not going to stand in most of the seats it contested at the last General Election.

It is said that UKIP needs to run a national campaign at a General Election (i.e. candidates in hundresds of constituencies) in order to qualify for at least one party election broadcast on television and radio.

It is possible for UKIP to contest hundreds of seats at a General Election and for it to have a few constituencies which it targets and makes a serious effort to try to win at the same time.

The europhile Liberal Dims contest most seats on the mainland of the UK at a General Election (so they can qualify for party election broadcasts) - but their main campaign is in 70 or 80 of the 646 constituencies (the seats they hold or think they have the greatest chance of winning).

Britannist

David Cameron insulted UKIP and UKIP members in comments he made on 4th April last year in an interview on LBC radio in London. He does not like UKIP one bit and has banned anti-EU Conservative MPs from sitting in the Shadow Cabinet.

I spoke to a UKIP member only the other day who said that, in view of David Cameron's attitude to UKIP and his pro-EU decisions (i.e. to ban anti-EU MPs from the Shadow Cabinet; to delay withdrawal of his party from the pro-euro EPP group in Brussels and to ditch the pledge of the three previous Conservative leaders to quit the damaging EU fishing policy), UKIP should not co-operate with David Cameron at all.

Millennium3

We are in a particular and unusual situation presently where there is a chance of obtaining a referendum on the 'amended' treaty if UKIP give the Tories their full support and a very real possibility of that chance disappearing if they don't. Everyone acknowledges these are very important amendments which take the EU a further step on the road to full integration.

The Tories are predicted to obtain around 40% of the votes cast - UKIP I suspect less than 3% - there is absolutely no chance of UKIP's wish for a referendum on our continued membership being put to the electorate until and unless UKIP can raise its support to 15%+ and then only if there is a hung Parliament and UKIP has MP's at Westminster.

I believe you and your friend are lost in a fantasy world where UKIP can measure itself against the three main parties because of its success in the EU elections. It would be very helpful if NF, you and your friend would recognise that UKIP is a tiny party which cannot compete with the big three - I believe this is the reason that NF is perpetually looking for big financial backing because he does try to compete with them as an equal. If he, you and him would accept reality, UKIP may be able to make steady progress rather than getting into financial difficulty and reduced support in the continued determination to live in that fantasy world.