Millennium3

'Political opportunism disguised as patriotism. It stinks.'

It could be more principled government - we have become used to New Labour acting as dictators - the group that Cameron has surrounded himself with do seem a fairly decent bunch and I am prepared to give them the benefit of the doubt.

I don't think anyone who honestly believes that the UK's interest is best served in Europe can be condemned - however, if they attempt to force their wishes upon the rest of us in this, so called democracy, then condemnation is right and proper.

Britannist

David Cameron insulted UKIP in comments made on LBC radio in London on 4th April last year.

David Cameron has said many times that he wants the UK to stay firmly in the EU.

He has banned anti-EU Conservative MPs from sitting in the Shadow Cabinet (europhiles are welcome and present in it in large numbers).

He dropped the pledge (of the three previous Conservative leaders) to pull the UK out of the damaging EU fishing policy.

During the Conservative leadership contest David Cameron (a candidate in it) said he would pull the UK Conservatives out of the pro-euro EPP group in Brussels "in months not years." A year later he was saying that nothing will be done to take the Conservatives out of the EPP until after the 2009 EU Elections.

Millennium3

UKIP has been insulted many times on this forum - often for good reason.

If you hadn't truncated my post, you will have noticed that I said people cannot be condemned if they genuinely believe that it is best for the UK to be in the EU [although he has said he wants less control from Brussells rather than more] - it's forcing through such a view without the agreement of the people which is contemptable in a democracy.

Britannist

Your tone suggests that you might be a bit annoyed - all I did was state facts (that David Cameron has made the Conservative Party more pro-EU than it was before he became its leader).

Britannist

Usually by europhile trolls posing as anti-EU people.

Millennium3

I am not annoyed, but I am rather tired of the concept that those who genuinely believe that Britain's future is best seved by being closely linked to the EU as being somehow dark and unsavoury. By taking this simplistic view it prevents a more generous approach - of seeing them as simply misguided - which allows for a more friendly attempt of persauding them they are wrong - which to my mind is more likely to be successful.

As to those who insult UKIP, I very much doubt if many europhiles visit this forum [any more than you would visit a europhile forum]. Those who insult UKIP on this forum, I would suspect, are, in the main, eurosceptics who are bitterly disappointed that Farage seems to have made a total hash of leading the Party and before that being part of a cabal which had no interest in what the members think - an attitude which he has continued as leader.

Britannist

Where in this forum has anyone used the words "dark and unsavoury"?

The most frequent argument used on this forum against europhiles is that they are just wrong and that the EU damages our economy and fishing industry, costs us too much money and that it should not be responsible for any legislation before the House of Commons.

Britannist

Quite a few do I suspect. Most might claim to be anti-EU but they will hardly post any comments criticising the EU. They will, instead, spend a great deal of time trying to argue with some of the regular genuinely anti-EU campaigners on this forum - especially those in UKIP.

kernow

I had noticed!

Millennium3

On dark and unsavoury - it's my impression - can't argue in precise terms - I will let you know when I think it is occurring.

Any europhile who came onto this forum to undermine the anti EU case would have to be somewhat perverse since there is no indication that the main political parties wish to leave the EU, the general political concensus is more integration and UKIP are averaging 2.3% in the polls.

It should be as tempting as for you or I to go onto the flat earth societies forum to argue the reverse is true!