East Stoke

Tom Wilde · 22-09-2007, 12:02 AM

I've just been checking Google News and I see that today there has been lots of coverage of the East Stoke mini-referendum result. It's mainly the same news-sources that covered the run-up to the poll, but with the addition of The Guardian. The coverage ranges from neutral to positive, but on balance is strongly positive.

http://news.bbc.co.uk/1/hi/england/dorset/7005571.stm
http://politics.guardian.co.uk/eu/st...173955,00.html
http://www.telegraph.co.uk/news/main...1/nsnap321.xml
http://www.thisisdorset.net/display....referendum.php
http://www.thisislondon.co.uk/news/a...aty/article.do

According to the BBC report:

Quote:

But the decision to hold the vote was welcomed by the Campaign Alliance for Referendums in Parishes (Carp), which is affiliated to UKIP and hopes other parishes across the country will follow suit.

The next village to hold a vote is expected to be Lanteglos, near Fowey, Cornwall.

And the Daily Telegraph says:

Quote:

The rural rebellion against the proposed EU reform treaty has gathered momentum after villages contacted the Telegraph to announce their intention to vote for a referendum on the issue.

Five parish communities from Yorkshire to Cornwall said they had proposed ballots, as the residents of East Stoke, Dorset, celebrated an expected "Yes" landslide in their ground-breaking poll.

Parishioners in Sidmouth, Devon, Wakefield, West Yorkshire, Loughton, near Milton Keynes, Lanteglos-by-Fowey, Cornwall, and Mawgan-in-Meneage, near Helston, Cornwall, all emailed the Telegraph to say they were in the process of organising votes.

Long live the rebellion!

Independent UKIP · 22-09-2007, 01:14 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by ANGLO-STAFFS

90% In favour, what a surprise after all the publicity, which may help UKIP, though judging by last nights two results!!!
The 10 sponsors of the referendum (I assume that any councillors involved actually live in the parish) managed to get 62 other residents of the parish (pop approx 330) to support them.
i.e. about 21% of the parish residents supported the motion 79% did not.

I am pleased that the ratepayers do not have to foot the bill, because at over £6 per vote it is a bit pricey.

So all we need now is 10,396 other people with £500 to spare and we can all have a great time.
Oops, no we can't because I don't think that many of the Millions of people living in the cities and MBC areas have parish councils.

Why were only supporters of the question aware of the publicity as the result is not surprising to you on the basis of that publicity? How many voters did not oppose the 'motion'? I think the turnout is very good indeed; fair enough you disagree. The UK doesn't tend to have 100% turnouts though you seem to think that is significant in this case for some strange reason. I note that you are in agreement with the BNP South West correspondent and have mentioned the same issue as that person regarding all those people who did not vote here. I'm not suggesting you are he/she but I look forward to all the BNP councillors who did not receive more than 50% of their electorates votes resigning en masse as the majority of the electorate did not support them. They failed to do so today & somehow I doubt they'll do that any time ever.

Your and their argument on this is utterly pathetic & as transparent as a thin plate of glass.

Are you suggesting that parish councils should be abolished or that they should be extended to areas that don't currently have them? Or are you convinced that the electorate in areas that don't have parish councils are in favour of the new EU constitution? I'm sure the latter is the case because if turnout is less than 50% by your apparent definition the constitution will have been endorsed regardless of the actual vote.

g hall · 22-09-2007, 12:23 PM

Will this move us toward a tipping point with first a referendum which says NO to the new constitution/treaty and hence toward leaving the EUSSR

ANGLO-STAFFS · 22-09-2007, 08:11 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Independent UKIP

Why were only supporters of the question aware of the publicity as the result is not surprising to you on the basis of that publicity? How many voters did not oppose the 'motion'? I think the turnout is very good indeed; fair enough you disagree. The UK doesn't tend to have 100% turnouts though you seem to think that is significant in this case for some strange reason. I note that you are in agreement with the BNP South West correspondent and have mentioned the same issue as that person regarding all those people who did not vote here. I'm not suggesting you are he/she but I look forward to all the BNP councillors who did not receive more than 50% of their electorates votes resigning en masse as the majority of the electorate did not support them. They failed to do so today & somehow I doubt they'll do that any time ever.

Your and their argument on this is utterly pathetic & as transparent as a thin plate of glass.

Are you suggesting that parish councils should be abolished or that they should be extended to areas that don't currently have them? Or are you convinced that the electorate in areas that don't have parish councils are in favour of the new EU constitution? I'm sure the latter is the case because if turnout is less than 50% by your apparent definition the constitution will have been endorsed regardless of the actual vote.

1. I did not say that only supporters saw the publicity. They were your words. In general people vote for things, if they do not like something they tend not to vote at all. Otherwise tactical voting would be the norm.

2. You say that I state that the turnout in this case was significant. I DID NOT. They also were your words
You seem to imply that no figures or %ages arguing against 90% should have been used. I take it that if only 1 person voted and he supported your point then you would claim 100% in favour. Mathematically correct, but misleading and irrelevant.

3. The BNP. Yes, when backed into a corner throw the BNP at them. I am in no way connected with the BNP, if they decide to have the odd flash of sanity and agree with me, then so be it. Why stop at the BNP? Why not call for anyone elected with less than 50% to resign?

Your line..
"Your and their argument on this is utterly pathetic & as transparent as a thin plate of glass".
Pathetic: that is just your judgment. Transparent: I tried to make it so; I wanted it clear so that even Muppets would understand. Sorry you missed the point. I realise that it is inconvenient for your argument but I do not see what is wrong in stating what %age of the electorate did not vote for you.

4. I did not say anything about parish councils apart from the fact that, as you seem to want the future of the UK & the EU decided at parish level, millions of people without parishes will be disenfranchised You may find that acceptable, I do not.

ANGLO-STAFFS · 22-09-2007, 08:16 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Independent UKIP

Why were only supporters of the question aware of the publicity as the result is not surprising to you on the basis of that publicity? How many voters did not oppose the 'motion'? I think the turnout is very good indeed; fair enough you disagree. The UK doesn't tend to have 100% turnouts though you seem to think that is significant in this case for some strange reason. I note that you are in agreement with the BNP South West correspondent and have mentioned the same issue as that person regarding all those people who did not vote here. I'm not suggesting you are he/she but I look forward to all the BNP councillors who did not receive more than 50% of their electorates votes resigning en masse as the majority of the electorate did not support them. They failed to do so today & somehow I doubt they'll do that any time ever.

Your and their argument on this is utterly pathetic & as transparent as a thin plate of glass.

Are you suggesting that parish councils should be abolished or that they should be extended to areas that don't currently have them? Or are you convinced that the electorate in areas that don't have parish councils are in favour of the new EU constitution? I'm sure the latter is the case because if turnout is less than 50% by your apparent definition the constitution will have been endorsed regardless of the actual vote.

Even with all of this you did not say if you thought that over £6 a vote was value for money?

Tom Wilde · 22-09-2007, 09:43 PM

More coverage today. Mainly to do with other parishes and districts wanting their own vote.

The Cornishman:
http://www.thisiscornwall.co.uk/disp...entPK=18462229

Quote:

People power is set to trigger a series of local votes across the Westcountry on the controversial EU Treaty.A huge groundswell of public support is about to set in motion polls in at least 20 towns and villages calling for a national referendum on the treaty.

Eurosceptic campaigners are angry that the British Government has not agreed a referendum on the treaty, after it pledged to do so on its predecessor, the EU Constitution.

Campaigners claim the treaty is little more than "the constitution in disguise."

Now they are using ancient laws to trigger individual votes in parishes across the country

Eight parishes in Devon, six in Cornwall and one in Somerset have already said they want to hold a local poll to try to convince Gordon Brown's Government not to ratify the treaty.

Trevor Coleman, a member of UKIP (United Kingdom Independence Party) from Newton Abbot, was the first to make the call for a vote.

snip

Daily Telegraph
http://www.telegraph.co.uk/news/main.../22/neu222.xml

According to the Telegraph report, the Tories are getting in on the act now. Here's an extract:

Quote:

Towns line up to host their own parish polls
By Richard Alleyne
Last Updated: 2:12am BST 22/09/2007

The grass roots campaign to force the Prime Minister to hold a referendum on the proposed EU treaty received a huge boost last night with the news that an entire constituency is planning its own "parish poll".

Alex Story, a prospective Tory candidate for Wakefield, West Yorks, is organising a vote for the constituency, which has a population of more than 60,000.

"Everything is in place for the vote but we need to raise the funding, which will be about £30,000," he said.

"I am confident I can get the money. We have to run our own vote because we would never get a referendum if we waited for the politicians to do it."

His move came after the village of East Stoke in Dorset exploited a little-known law to force its district council to run a parish poll.

It also claims that ..

Quote:

Since then at least 10 more villages and parishes have contacted The Daily Telegraph or local authorities to say they wish to hold a ballot. Mark Siggers, who is organising a vote in the Mereworth and West Peckham parishes in Kent, said he would have no problem getting support.

"I could get six times the number of signatures I need just by visiting the local pub, such is the strength of feeling," he said.

Parishioners in Sidmouth, Devon; Loughton, near Milton Keynes, Bucks; Lanteglos-by-Fowey and Mawgan-in-Meneage, Cornwall; Mortimer West End, Hants, and Broughton, Cambs, all emailed The Telegraph to say they were in the process of organising votes

arden forester · 22-09-2007, 10:34 PM

Two things. First, this result stands up well against loads of council election results all over the country. I don't hear messrs Brown/Cameron/Campbell dismissing them as a farce!

Second, if there was a referendum, the result would be an overwhelming no. Maybe by not as much, but a winner all the same.

It seems this pathetic government would rather some hapless government elsewhere deals with a NO vote, so they can waffle on about another revised treaty without having got their hands dirty in an election.

Don't you just love democracy?

ANGLO-STAFFS · 22-09-2007, 10:49 PM

All of this may be sorted soon. If Brown calls an election next month he could mention that a referendum may not be necessary, vague sort of stuff. Then when he wins he has a mandate which did not promise a referendum it would then be difficult, for a while at least, for anyone to put a strong argument for one.

kernow · 23-09-2007, 12:10 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by gimlet

Well done to all involved. Excellant result, and no surprise!

Hear! Hear!

Independent UKIP · 23-09-2007, 02:35 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by ANGLO-STAFFS

1. I did not say that only supporters saw the publicity. They were your words. In general people vote for things, if they do not like something they tend not to vote at all. Otherwise tactical voting would be the norm.

I intend to make a fuller response to your post at a later time. Apologies in advance if I don't have time to do so - newer issues can take up the limited time. On the basis of your first point how do you explain the opinion polls that all suggest that people want a referendum? What is your personal opinion on the UK having a referendum on the new EU constitution?

Quote:

Originally Posted by ANGLO-STAFFS

3. The BNP. Yes, when backed into a corner throw the BNP at them. I am in no way connected with the BNP, if they decide to have the odd flash of sanity and agree with me, then so be it. Why stop at the BNP? Why not call for anyone elected with less than 50% to resign?

I had firmly decided to let your ludicrous post go by until I did the google news check that many forum members perform and thus found that your post so clearly coincided with the equally ludicrous view of the BNP South West correspondent. I'm sure you will be able to quote lots of comments that confer with your and their view on the matter so proving that you and them are not unique in your opinions. I look forward to reading the quotes.

"Why stop at the BNP?" I am truly amazed that you have asked the question. The only party expressing the same views as yourself are the BNP. If other political parties share your and their view on the issue of parish turnout then I will happily extend my comments to those parties & apologise for any lapses. That is why I stop at the BNP who for some reason you appear to have no substantive criticism of that I have observed.

22-09-2007, 12:23 PM	#13 (permalink)
g hall Uber Member Join Date: Nov 2006 Location: erehwon Posts: 5,233	Will this move us toward a tipping point with first a referendum which says NO to the new constitution/treaty and hence toward leaving the EUSSR __________________ "That government is best which governs least." "This is a sharp Medicine, but it is a Physician for all diseases and miseries". "To be "matter of fact" about the world is to blunder into fantasy --and dull fantasy at that, as the real world is strange and wonderful."

22-09-2007, 10:34 PM	#17 (permalink)
arden forester Uber Member Join Date: May 2005 Location: Solihull, in The Forest of Arden, Warwickshire! Posts: 2,660 Party: None	Democracy!! Two things. First, this result stands up well against loads of council election results all over the country. I don't hear messrs Brown/Cameron/Campbell dismissing them as a farce! Second, if there was a referendum, the result would be an overwhelming no. Maybe by not as much, but a winner all the same. It seems this pathetic government would rather some hapless government elsewhere deals with a NO vote, so they can waffle on about another revised treaty without having got their hands dirty in an election. Don't you just love democracy? __________________ www.ardenforester.blogspot.com www.westminster-whispers.blogspot.com

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22-09-2007, 10:49 PM	#18 (permalink)
ANGLO-STAFFS Senior Member Join Date: Feb 2007 Posts: 608	All of this may be sorted soon. If Brown calls an election next month he could mention that a referendum may not be necessary, vague sort of stuff. Then when he wins he has a mandate which did not promise a referendum it would then be difficult, for a while at least, for anyone to put a strong argument for one.